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A note on charging issues posted a lot

S

Some Car Guy

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I’ve seen quite a few posts on here about charging woes. I changed a good mechanical regulator on my 69 GTX because I went to electronic ignition. I went to the solid state look alike style.

The solid state 69 down regulator of course needs a good ground, but it must come from a source other than a battery. I was told that might’ve been why I smoked the first regulator I bought within 100 miles. With it grounded to the block I now have 14.5 volts at the battery and the alternator stud. With it grounded with sanded off paint on the firewall it produced 13.3.

I even have it at idle. My meter shows 14.5 at the battery and the charger I have shows the alt percentage at 100 and even a touch over when I goose the throttle.

When I put the second regulator on, I simply sanded the firewall because of what the second vendor told me. The first place with the cheapest price never would respond. The second place ended up with the exact same part, but was a few bucks more. They also communicated well and I explained my issue. When they told me the manufacturer said specifically not to ground to the battery, I told them that should be written someplace when you get the part! They didn’t know the reasoning behind that, but at least we now all know. Both vendors are on eBay and I paid maybe 12-14 bucks the second time.

Having the charging voltage come in a bit low was causing my agm battery to lose charge slowly it seems. I read those batteries really don’t like being under 14.5 and an agm charger puts out 14.7 when bringing them back up.

Hope this helps some of you chasing down your problems.
 
Grounds Grounds Grounds.

But Im so glad I have spares put away

regulators.jpg
 
I'm a bit of an over-doer on grounds. First thing is that I always make sure the ground on the back of the
passenger side head (on a 440, anyways) to firewall is present, tight and clean.
Of course, same thing goes for the main battery ground to engine, as well as the factory ground for lights
on the front of the radiator support.
Lastly, I run an additional ground from the negative battery cable (they sometimes have that little pigtail
on them) to the radiator support as well.
Doing all that has kept me out of electrical problems over the years. I've (knock wood) never had charging
issues, lost an alternator or had problems with regulators (I'm currently running a factory early 70's electronic
unit, but have used the Direct Connection "race" one sold with electronic ignition conversion kits).
 
Please don't sand the paint off under grounded items like a voltage regulator. It may cause trouble sooner or later. The auto manufacturers don't sand paint off the body with grounded items, and they made 10's of millions of cars that made it out of warranty and beyond with no problems

The ground occurs between the bolt threads and the body, then the head of the bolt to the voltage regulator. Make sure the sheet metal,screws are getting harder tie turn while tightening them and the bolts and regulator are clean and rust free. The paint on the body doesn't mean a thing.

If you want to ensure a good ground use star washers under the bolt heads and run a ground wire from the engine block to the regulator.
 
Some Car Guy said:
I’ve seen quite a few posts on here about charging woes. I changed a good mechanical regulator on my 69 GTX because I went to electronic ignition. I went to the solid state look alike style.

The solid state 69 down regulator of course needs a good ground, but it must come from a source other than a battery. I was told that might’ve been why I smoked the first regulator I bought within 100 miles. With it grounded to the block I now have 14.5 volts at the battery and the alternator stud. With it grounded with sanded off paint on the firewall it produced 13.3.

I even have it at idle. My meter shows 14.5 at the battery and the charger I have shows the alt percentage at 100 and even a touch over when I goose the throttle.

When I put the second regulator on, I simply sanded the firewall because of what the second vendor told me. The first place with the cheapest price never would respond. The second place ended up with the exact same part, but was a few bucks more. They also communicated well and I explained my issue. When they told me the manufacturer said specifically not to ground to the battery, I told them that should be written someplace when you get the part! They didn’t know the reasoning behind that, but at least we now all know. Both vendors are on eBay and I paid maybe 12-14 bucks the second time.

Having the charging voltage come in a bit low was causing my agm battery to lose charge slowly it seems. I read those batteries really don’t like being under 14.5 and an agm charger puts out 14.7 when bringing them back up.

Hope this helps some of you chasing down your problems.
Click to expand...
If you meant body when you said battery, then what you said at least makes sense, otherwise it doesn't.
 
If you want the regulator to regulate battery charging voltage, the ground and IGN power to the regulator should come from the battery because all the regulator knows of the voltage is what it senses between the case ground and IGN terminal on the regulator. If the voltages are wrong when mounted as factory, you need to fix the grounds and also any ignition voltage drops. If the regulator is good, but not regulating the alternator correctly, it means you have other electrical problems that need to be fixed.
 
Some Car Guy said:
I’ve seen quite a few posts on here about charging woes. I changed a good mechanical regulator on my 69 GTX because I went to electronic ignition. I went to the solid state look alike style.

The solid state 69 down regulator of course needs a good ground, but it must come from a source other than a battery. I was told that might’ve been why I smoked the first regulator I bought within 100 miles. With it grounded to the block I now have 14.5 volts at the battery and the alternator stud. With it grounded with sanded off paint on the firewall it produced 13.3.

I even have it at idle. My meter shows 14.5 at the battery and the charger I have shows the alt percentage at 100 and even a touch over when I goose the throttle.

When I put the second regulator on, I simply sanded the firewall because of what the second vendor told me. The first place with the cheapest price never would respond. The second place ended up with the exact same part, but was a few bucks more. They also communicated well and I explained my issue. When they told me the manufacturer said specifically not to ground to the battery, I told them that should be written someplace when you get the part! They didn’t know the reasoning behind that, but at least we now all know. Both vendors are on eBay and I paid maybe 12-14 bucks the second time.

Having the charging voltage come in a bit low was causing my agm battery to lose charge slowly it seems. I read those batteries really don’t like being under 14.5 and an agm charger puts out 14.7 when bringing them back up.

Hope this helps some of you chasing down your problems.
Click to expand...
Since the alternator is bolted to the engine block and the battery's negative cable (GROUND) IS bolted to the block as is the separate wire to the voltage regulators case is connected to the engine block additional wires are superfluous. And the washer you refer to are called shake proof lockwashers (with internal or external teeth...your choice).
BOB RENTON
R/T Boy 67 said:
If you meant body when you said battery, then what you said at least makes sense, otherwise it doesn't.
Click to expand...
 
451Mopar said:
If you want the regulator to regulate battery charging voltage, the ground and IGN power to the regulator should come from the battery because all the regulator knows of the voltage is what it senses between the case ground and IGN terminal on the regulator. If the voltages are wrong when mounted as factory, you need to fix the grounds and also any ignition voltage drops. If the regulator is good, but not regulating the alternator correctly, it means you have other electrical problems that need to be fixed.
Click to expand...

The makers of the regulator said not to ground it to the battery. They didn’t or wouldn’t say why. The ground wire from the block to the battery wasn’t enough to get the ground the regulator needed.

In thirty years of the mopar hobby, I’ve found extra grounds the factory didn’t have produced better results than what they did. I had a car that already was beefed up with something like a #2 wire from block to chassis. Did an engine swap and did the first fire without honking that back up. Let me know quickly it was missing and things returned to normal as soon as I put it back on.
 
I know guys have different opinions on stuff, but my idea here was to give the many people posting in here about their charging woes an idea of what to look for. The factory grounds might not be working out for you. Lots of rust can build up in 50 years and it can come back soon after you clean it off. Having a big ole ground is the easiest way to end the issue.
 
Some Car Guy said:
The makers of the regulator said not to ground it to the battery. They didn’t or wouldn’t say why. The ground wire from the block to the battery wasn’t enough to get the ground the regulator needed.

In thirty years of the mopar hobby, I’ve found extra grounds the factory didn’t have produced better results than what they did. I had a car that already was beefed up with something like a #2 wire from block to chassis. Did an engine swap and did the first fire without honking that back up. Let me know quickly it was missing and things returned to normal as soon as I put it back on.
Click to expand...
Just HOW DO YOU THINK circuit is completed?? Firewall ground is the same as the connection as the battery ground thru the engine block and auxiliary ground wire thru the engine block to the firewall.....someone is blowing smoke up your ***......multiple grounds don't accomplish anything but can be confusing to the uneducated or naive.......
BOB RENTON
 
RJRENTON said:
Just HOW DO YOU THINK circuit is completed?? Firewall ground is the same as the connection as the battery ground thru the engine block and auxiliary ground wire thru the engine block to the firewall.....someone is blowing smoke up your ***......multiple grounds don't accomplish anything but can be confusing to the uneducated or naive.......
BOB RENTON
Click to expand...
Basically correct except.. :rolleyes:
After 50 or 60 years of multiple repaints, rust buildups and/or oxidation accumulations, poor grounds can happen.
Also often a factory installed ground cable may be left off after doing an engine pull or other repairs.
Regarding a new car...
Here the OEM uses thread-cutting bolts and star tooth washers, making a typical, solid ground connection.
The challenge for our older vintage mopars is to be doubling sure for having reliable ground connections.
In my mopar installs I always add some ground straps from the voltage regulator base to the engine, plus making sure the regulator base is well grounded.

Just my $0.02... :thumbsup:
 
RJRENTON said:
Just HOW DO YOU THINK circuit is completed?? Firewall ground is the same as the connection as the battery ground thru the engine block and auxiliary ground wire thru the engine block to the firewall.....someone is blowing smoke up your ***......multiple grounds don't accomplish anything but can be confusing to the uneducated or naive.......
BOB RENTON
Click to expand...

Well bob, since you’ve uncovered a conspiracy, go call them up and tell them they’ve been outed.

If you’d use your brain, it’s easy to see a reason for what they said. I got it. Free clue to the uneducated is the engine block you mentioned.
 
Yes, if the regulator is referenced to the alternator output and block/alternator case, you are regulating the alternator output voltage, and the battery voltage is only as good as the connections from the block/alternator to battery. Ideally they should be the same, but all wires/connections have resistance.
Just depends what is more important to you alternator output voltage or Battery charging voltage.
 
Some Car Guy said:
Well bob, since you’ve uncovered a conspiracy, go call them up and tell them they’ve been outed.

If you’d use your brain, it’s easy to see a reason for what they said. I got it. Free clue to the uneducated is the engine block you mentioned.
Click to expand...
"An uncovered conspiracy"......perhaps "they" just don't know any better or "multiple grounds are just better" because??.......maybe the valve cover screws should be grounded, or carb hold down bolts should be grounded or water pump housing bolts should be grounded.....just in case.....exemplifing the "need" for multiple grounds......I'm from Missouri....show me the need for multiple grounds and what they accomplish......your comments make no sense......
BOB RENTON
 
To quote a famous person: the people who said not to ground directly to the battery, are smoking their underwear. Grounding to the engine block which is grounded directly to the battery is exactly the same as running a ground wire to the battery.
 
What they are getting at is the block for instance is better to ground to than running a wire to the battery. You’ve got a battery cable to the block, then the block itself, then maybe six inches of wire, which is better than say a 14 wire running for five feet.

For the conspiracy minded, you can find this idea in wiring up an amp. They want a ground within 18 inches of the amp. I went looking for such things when I figured out what they were angling at.
 
Nothing wrong with redundant grounds. They don't look pretty, but you know it's grounded no matter what. Much like all of the cars we drive. Why is there 2 TPS's that check themselves against each other in the DBW throttle body's??
 
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