1968 bengal charger

[John Cook]

History (for example) is either what was or what some were told it was.

It sounds like a simple story about a couple of ID badges that was relayed by someone who was there. It's funny that those who hear these stories for the first time think they know more than those who were involved and just re-telling what they recall.

 

[Bladecutter]

A good example to contrast WAS right here on bbo. Dave, of ECS, Who packed & left......has 400k and countless hours in to a build, a NEW, car, not a rotiss resto.....a 70 4 door 'Cuda that may or may not have existed.....possibly, Plymouth built ONE turn key 70 Cuda 4 dt in 69, a hdtop..postless......at least one person who worked at Chrysler claims to have seen the car....but because He worked in he mailroom, His credibilty with those who doubt the car was made, throw rocks @ him, saying Hes full of ****, making light of His 'mail boy'.status......major drama here on bbo with purists, though it was never stated emphatically that the existence of car was an absolute...a conncept of a Possible concept.....Dave's car is a full b pillar, w window frames. The car is bound for SEMA, w Chrysler endorsement to the Possibility of such a thing...it will show with a showroom window sticker, & a broadcast sheet, approved by Chrysler....
Because Chrysler knows their records are not perfect, alluding to the Possibility of a 4 drs existence that was soon scrapped after build.
All the big 3 design studios were doing projects without full knowledge of top brass....look at John Z with Ponchos......so nobody really knows whether plymouth did or not....maybe it was done covertly, & why it was scrapped so quickly.....Chrysler capitulates to the possibility, an employee TOLD what he remembered, and was ridiculed by several purist antagonists here & on other sites....the main antagonist, once booted from here & other mopar sites....went on a chebbie forum to whine & recruit more whiners, that Dave was intentionally ******* with Chrysler (his exact words) "Historical History" so fervent in his antagonism, he tried to modify an ABSOLUTE. So History is retold, by one who was there, but doubted by many. always will be doubters who will question from different sides. History is biased of my era....i was there, what kids read in the history books is bullshit.....but that is another rabbit hole......History is like a sieve, and should ALWAYS be questioned....thats Critical Thinking.
So when are we going to see YOUR car??
To not question history is shortsighted, and frankly,,pompous, cocky, smug.
Regardless of anyones conclusions about cuda 4's existence, Dave & Crew, 3 guys, Build is phenomrnal ****....absolute top drawer, 95 percent new AMD sheet, every panel, including roof(71 coro 4 dr PARTIAL platform)altered. Major time.....ive been hammering and shaping **** for 45 yrs....im not bad.....but this ****, ECS, is off richter....plus ECS is mfgs. many after mkt products for 60's muscle, develops chemical compounds for metal preservation, supplies vin tags with DOT approval for collision industry(which became a sore subject with antagonists here) My point is He brought **** to the table in a big way.....was of benefit to mopar enthusiasts with different products...has a hermedic garage with 13 or so absolutely authentic **** **** OE builds. The antagonists Who drove Him off.....One of them, ive seen examples of His restos...pictures......the only one close to bringing something to the table here, ....the rest of them were faceless.
The point is, that HISTORY is what Caused the drama. FBBO is the loser in this case.......all members, save for the antagonists....petty victory.....history is the root of problem. Always question,,,,Trust No One.
Lot of people asked to see Your car, you hold out, sounds like you want to hit & run.

 

[BeatersRus]

both situations are similar.
both stories have only 1 persons recollection,versus others recollections.

the main part about Daves car,was there was Never Any Proof.
no records,no memos no proposals nothing,it just never happened.
weve even heard from Designers who Worked there at that Time.
and yet hes determined to change history by sticking to one guys story.
keep in mind,if hed claimed he wanted to make a What-if car,
there would not have been this kind of outcry.
but,claiming its a tribute to a never made mockup,is deceptive at best.
the very paperwork,labels,stickers,and vin/illegal btw/ that hes so fervently displayed so far,show the depth of this grand illusion.
im not sure what to call this,except a blatant attempt to rewrite mopar history.

moving on to the bengal chargers,again we have one persons story.
however,we still have the opportunity to prove these cars stories.
merely posting that this guy told me a story and thats it,
doesnt really help the mopar historyline.

i also cant understand why people are ducking the fairly obvious conclusion here.
if that dealer put any badges on a car in his lot,he Made it a bengal.
so if he did stick them on that 72 charger of hemiguys,then its a bengal charger Period.

 

[moparnation74]

Without definitive proof it is merely a fictitious story. Whether it is a 72 Bengal charger or a four door cuda.

Friends want to support friends, that's obvious. However, when that support requires one to believe fictitious information because of a personal relationship than where do your morals stand?

 

[YY1]

Still trying to find info on 3rd gen "Big Red Machine" Chargers.

I saw two as a kid.

Fits the MO of the dealer.

I want to say they were 72 models.

Might be the missing link.

 

[Bladecutter]

Without definitive proof it is merely a fictitious story. Whether it is a 72 Bengal charger or a four door cuda.

Friends want to support friends, that's obvious. However, when that support requires one to believe fictitious information because of a personal relationship than where do your morals stand?

The post i made last night was not to drum up this controversy, it was geared towards towards Cook and his post about not questioning history....where i daid quedtion should always be raised....history often biased and incomplete.
Morals? Over inanimate objectsn
I stated long ago that i didnt give a rusty **** about assembly line car history.....only the history of Hand Made, limited production do i get emotional about......but Morals??
I save my Moral judgements for Life, living breathing.....my Morals dont come into play concerning THINGS.
But a thing that is built by the heads, hearts and hands of individuals thinking, feeling, blood in their veins versus machines building them, stand s far better chance if corraling my Emotions.....never morals.
I love B bods, but they are assy line cars......apples and oranges.
My post, i reitterate, was geatef towards Cook, who is not bringing anything to table after repeated requests by myself & others to see his car.....which he wont show for sake of condition, he claims...i suspect he is a troll, wanting to start arguments. My MORALS dont agree with that. Im not going to beef with anyone about the cuda 4, i only used it as example that history will Always be controversial. Barb all You want, i wont be replying.
Id still take a Mangusta over a Daytona in a heartbeat...keep the extra 600 K..means not **** to me....one is hand made, rare ....the other is production assy line, 4 times as many...and still based on a platform that was produced in millions. This Was MINE...what i bring to table, plus all my other stuff ive brought to table on bbo, not just jaw flap.......morals was a poor choice of word imo

 

[moparnation74]

It was a "Perfect" choice of a word....IMO!

My car and cars have been posted here and on dc.com etc...not just jaw flap either....You can search the threads where I posted these...I think the most recent was, "pulled the blanket off the charger", also "what did you do to your Mopar today" PG 153.....

However, being a Bengal charger only thread, posting not related info/pictures is not beneficial to this thread.

Let's stay on topic......

 

[Hemi-Hampton]

Assman, if they do not exist then why did they advertise them for sale in the 1972 Cincinnati newspapers?

P.S. I talked to Jeff Warner about these 72's years ago & he knew nothing about them. Never told me a story about somebody just putting emblems on any car at the dealership?

 

[ws23jrt]

I did a quick search on the "bengal" charger and came up with this.
https://tommyscarblog.com/2012/10/30/1968-dodge-charger/comment-page-1/

In this case (or this view) it looks like the 68 bengals were not a Dodge issue but an order for a group of cars. Sort of like a fleet order of rentals.

I do recall bits of memory from those days about this but what I recall is of no value.

This reference to a "bengal" charger is about a 1968 car. -- A 1972 car is four years later and is new to me completely.--(for what that's worth). Off hand it looks like a local dealers effort to cash in on a sports team (again) that may have been popular at the time.

It would be interesting to hear about any Dodge participation --FROM THE FACTORY--about the "bengal" issue cars. (Aside filling an order for a car of color)

Dealers in the day were sometimes moved to do things to sell cars that was not what the factory was involved with.

Collectors/ investors need to know what it is they are looking at.---Is it just a badge?---Buyer beware and aware--

Again--if it's value we are talking about --how many their are/were is not the deciding factor.

 

[BeatersRus]

lol,so not only were the 72-s real but they were sold at no less than 5
yes thats the number 5 < Dealerships in that area.

this is why i ask sometimes tough or contradictory questions @ glassman,because sometimes the Truth Does come out.
i dont mean to offend anyone with my posts either,
but i do think we need to keep track of our Mopar History and not let illusions,stories,
nor flatout bs sidetrack us into just following the sheep.

this whole 72 thing would have been lost and ignored had i not kept asking.

many thanks to Hemi Hampton for posting that pic set and also that it can be blown up to see the specs too.
Much appreciated,huge thumbsup there.

the cars appeared to be basic 318 grocery getters with special paint and badges.
so valuewise,
its much more of a visual collectors appeal more than any hope of a musclecar.
( lol at this term,musclecars,remember when we called them supercars? )

 

[polywideblock]

going to be hard to argue with history

especiallywhen its in print

 

[Hemi-Hampton]

Hood.

 

[polywideblock]

glad to see you made it over to give your 2 cents worth

 

[John Cook]

going to be hard to argue with history

especiallywhen its in print

Especially when when history is printed in the newspaper.

http://my.chicagotribune.com/#section/-1/gallery/p2p-34569547/

 

[polywideblock]

so the comparison is ....

were the adds for 5 dealers put in by mistake

 

[John Cook]

so the comparison is ....

were the adds for 5 dealers put in by mistake

Just playing the devil's advocate. I don't know a thing about the origins of this type of car. Someone's story about what they were told doesn't bother me at all and it isn't important enough to tell someone their recollection must be inaccurate based on personal speculation. Someone tells a story and it's questioned as if the person is embellishing or possibly lying. A newspaper ad is posted and it's considered proof for what Chrysler was promoting. People seem to believe whatever goes with their opinion.

The early yenko newspaper ads promoted conversions on their camaros but it had nothing to do with what the factory was doing at that time. GM offered copo cars at a later date but yenko was converting cars on his own behalf at his dealership in the beginning. A dealership is not the factory and they can do what they want with the cars they own. I'm not sure if these bengal cars are factory sponsored but a newspaper advertisement only proves that a dealership was selling them. It doesn't tell who was converting them or if they were factory sponsored.

 

[BeatersRus]

John,if only you had done maybe 20 mins worth of research on this topic before you posted...then you might be a better devils advocate.

yes,Yenko did his own thing as did Tom kneer.
yes they Might be Dealer Converted cars,
its unknown yet as to how many orange chargers were made for those 5 dealers.
the 68s Were a fleet order from the factory.
this may have been another fleet order,or not?

and yes theres 72 bengal chargers out there.
all thats left now,is to try to figure out how many...
wonder if any of those other 4 dealerships had stats/paperwork....?

 

[John Cook]

John,if only you had done maybe 20 mins worth of research on this topic before you posted...then you might be a better devils advocate.

It's not important enough to me to do five seconds of research about. What true gain is there in knowing if a dealership decided to put some badges on a few of their cars? Besides, it appears you know more about the subject than your questions would suggest. Why act so uninformed with rhetoric inquiries if you already know the answers before asking the questions?

 

[polywideblock]

It's not important enough to me to do five seconds of research about. What true gain is there in knowing if a dealership decided to put some badges on a few of their cars?

take a look at that hood picture , decals or paint its more that a few badges this took some thought

 

[68BENGAL R/T]

I don't know what people would consider 'Factory Sponsored', but the '68 Bengal was built to a unique Car Production Broadcast sheet with a 999 color code
(they did not offer an Orange color that year) and in the 'Remarks:' area at the bottom of the sheet it reads '01 SPECIAL HANDLING JOB'. The non R/T BENGALS
are also the only 68 Chargers that have the factory Bumblebee stripe. I am fortunate to have one of the 10 - 440 R/T's. Don't know much about the '72 Bengals
but I believe Hemi-Hampton has done his research.