1969 Dodge Charger Base vs RT

[Kern Dog]

Another question, what about the coils and shocks for example.
No difference Base vs RT Cars?

The coil for an R/T is the same 12V coil that they use in all the engines. It will shock you if you touch the wire while standing in water.

 

[Michael_]

Well i was talking about this stuff

 

[Chargerjase]

No coils on Mopars. Just these;

https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/threads/torsion-bar.114393/

 

[Michael_]

My fault.
Never had a Mopar bevor, the Charger will be my first. ^^

My 71 Cutlass has Coils.

 

[Kern Dog]

Well i was talking about this stuff

I know. I was making a joke since every Mopar guy knows that our classics don't have coil springs!

 

[70chall440]

Just in case you don't know, Mopars use Torsion bars instead of coil springs. To your question, the difference in torsion bar diameter (aka size or thickness) is based on the engine the car was built with. So in your situation, the 318 car would have thinner (smaller) torsion bars than an RT with a 440, the good news is that you can (and probably should) replace them with the correct or even bigger size (the thicker they are, the stiffer the front end becomes and in general the better they handle up to a point as there are some very thick bars which will give you great handling but a very harsh ride).

I suspect you are trying to figure out the differences in an effort to determine if this is something want to do or can do, so here are some differences beyond the torsion bar issue;

An RT would have what are called torque boxes which are sheet metal pieces that are welded into the car to help support the added power. They pieces are relatively easy to install and technically could be removed if so desire although it would not be real pretty depending on who welded them in. That said, there is little reason to ever remove them even if it were converted back to a non RT. They are not readily apparent on the car unless it is up on a lift and/or you know what to look for.

Obviously a RT would have a different drive train (engine and transmission); 440 4bbl, 440 6 pack or 426 hemi; automatic or 4 speed

Rear end; a RT would generally have the same 8 3/4 rearend that the 318 would have, but it most likely would have a sure grip (posi) and potentially different gears (a 318 AT car probably has 2:76 gears whereas a RT 440 AT car would probably have 3:23, 3:55 or 3:91 gears); note that a 440 6 pack with a 4 speed and I believe any of the Hemi cars all came with Dana 60 rear ends whereas the rest all had 8 3/4 rear ends.

Rear leaf springs: a RT would most likely have a "trac pack" rear leaf spring pack which means they have more leafs to make the rearend stiffer

Instrumentation; a RT most likely would have a "Tic Toc Tac" (aka tachometer) although I am not positive this was standard on all of them (someone here will know for sure). I am pretty certain the rest of the instrumentation is the same.

Stereo: all of the models I believe shared the same stereo packages

Interior: someone else can chime in here but generally all of the models had standard interiors and deluxe interiors and an RT most likely would have come with the deluxe variant

Brakes: an RT probably came with 11" brakes whereas the base came with 10" (could be wrong here)

You already know about the badging

off the top of my head I cannot think of anything else and I am sure someone will jump on and add/correct me. That said, look up the dealer information for the year charger you are after and you should be able to see many of the things that were available. I am not a Charger guy so I cannot say where this information be but I am sure it is out there. What you want to look at is the dealer options and there will be a column that shows a base model, a RT and a RT SE (perhaps 500 as well), under these headings it will show what comes as standard and what is optional, this will give you a very good idea in the large items. As for the general body and suspension (other than what I listed), they are pretty much the same cars

 

[Michael_]

Just looked at an old brochure:
https://www.xr793.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/1969-Dodge-Charger.pdf

This again confirmed everything you guys said!
And yes the 69 Chargers ALL came with a Sway Bar, not only the RT's.

One Question:
The only way to get HD Radiator and Transmission Oil Cooler seemed to be purchasing the "Trailer Towing Package".
Is that true?
But that Package was not available with the Hemi.

Asking because i've already seen an Oil Cooler on a Hemi Car.
Guess the Better Cooling (HD Radiator, Transmission Oil Cooler) was Standard Equipment on Hemi Cars?

 

[70chall440]

One of the first things you need to know about Mopars is that almost nothing is set, meaning back in the day if you had enough money or a dealer had enough sway, they could get most anything on a car (within reason). If the factory wouldn't do it, the dealer would, this is why there is a lot of discussion and many times heated arguments about what cars had or didn't have.

I cannot answer your question but someone here should be able to.

 

[Michael_]

Just looked at pictures from Sold Hemi Cars.

Look at the Thing in front of the Radiator (right side)

Looks like an Oil Cooler, right?
Have now seen 4 Hemi Chargers with that in total.
That at least leads me to think that it was Standard Equipment on Hemi Cars.

Or is that something different?

 

[Kern Dog]

Yes.
Again, there are bits of equipment on the R/T cars that you can duplicate at least in function by using readily available aftermarket parts.
As far as I remember, No Charger ever came with a power steering cooler but I put one in mine.
The stock R/T torsion bars were .92, I have 1.15s. The stock front sway bar was just under an inch. I have an 1 1/4". You can easily surpass the performance of a stock R/T car in power, handling and braking while leaving the outside essentially stock appearing.
That was my goal.
If I were to put a set of factory wheels on my car and removed the front spoiler, mine would look close to stock.

 

[70chall440]

I thought trac pack cars (3.55, 3.91, 4.10) cars came with PS cooler...

 

[Kern Dog]

Did they?
Heck, I didn't think so. I thought that they were a Police car thing. That is where I got mine.

 

[hunt2elk]

I thought trac pack cars (3.55, 3.91, 4.10) cars came with PS cooler...

I agree. The 69 Charger R/T that I had a couple years ago was a 440 4-speed Trac Pac 3.54 Dana 60 car and had a factory power steering cooler bolted to the pump. It also did not have torque boxes from the factory. From what I remember reading at the time I restored it was that this was a hit or miss feature on the 440 R/T's.

 

[Demonic]

The tic-toc-tach was an option, even on the R/T's. The R/T HD brakes were 11" power front drums, with discs as an option.

 

[BLK 68 R/T]

That cooler on the radiator is a transmission oil cooler.
The power steering cooler came as part of an axle package on some 440/hemi cars.

 

[Kern Dog]

I agree. The 69 Charger R/T that I had a couple years ago was a 440 4-speed Trac Pac 3.55 Dana 60 car and had a factory power steering cooler bolted to the pump. It also did not have torque boxes from the factory. From what I remember reading at the time I restored it was that this was a hit or miss feature on the 440 R/T's.

If it was a Dana 60 car, the ratio was 3.54, not 3.55.

 

[hunt2elk]

If it was a Dana 60 car, the ratio was 3.54, not 3.55.

You are correct sir. Was just messing around with a 8 3/4 and had 3.55 on my mind. Changed my first post.

 

[Kern Dog]

Sorry if I appeared rude. I see numbers and errors just stand out. I see Mopar guys say their car came with 2.73 gears...(No they didn't)

 

[Michael_]

Well after sleeping a few nights over it i decided to not buy it.
Of course its all doable but:

- Its a nice original car and it would be sad to modify it
- I cant do all the Work myself
- The Car + Parts + Wages would cost as much as a real RT
-- But the car would of course not be worth as much as a real RT (So its not really wisely spent money)

I think i should save myself the trouble and simply keep looking until i find a real RT with the
options i want. (Or at least pretty close)

If i would be going to build a 650hp Monster it would be something different.
But for what i would be going to do (Simple RT Clone) i think its not really worth it because i would Modify a great original car
and spend more money than i could get back out of it. (+ More Work and Trouble)
The alternative to simply keep looking and buying a real RT seems smarter to me.

But thanks for all the Infos, learned a lot for sure.

 

[Kern Dog]

If you look at these cars as an "Investment", you may never be able to fully enjoy them.
The pedigree of a "Real" R/T matters most in pure stock restorations. Once they are modified, the gap between a base model and an R/T narrows significantly.
In short, buy what you want, build it how you want and forget what is is worth. Just enjoy it.