1970 Charger steering linkage question(s)

[TTR]

Hi all,

I'm new here, but relatively experienced professional restorer of vintage cars, especially '55-'62 MoPars.
Not so with B-bodies, which is why I'd like to ask others more experienced about the subject in the thread title.
Just finishing a complete front end and brake rebuild on the '70 Charger using and ran into a small "issue".

First of all, the car in question appears quite nice original car that has been treated to fairly comprehensive cosmetic restoration perhaps within past 15 years and seem to feature all O.E.M. type (drum) brakes, steering and suspension.

After replacing all front end wear parts with presumably high quality replacement items sourced through my local auto store and after assembling everything I noticed the idler arm (right) side of the steering center link aligning higher and closer to torsion bar than the pitman (left) side of it, maybe by an inch or so.

After closer inspection and comparing the new idler arm to the old example, although otherwise identical, the old one seemed to have perhaps being bent near the upper end allowing its lower (stud) end sit further down and providing more clearance for it and inner tie-rod end below torsion bar.
Assembling everything with the old "bent"(?) arm not only allows the aforementioned (better) clearance, but also allows the center link sit more horizontal (and natural looking) than with the new (correct/non-bent) arm.

Attached picture shows the center link fairly parallel due to it still sitting about an inch below the idler arm stud. If fully lifted up to the stud and secured tightly, it would appear crooked and align the grease fitting of the right inner tie-rod end or the idler arm stud to get too close to the torsion bar, likely allowing them touch it during any movement, not to mention misalign the side-to-side steering and tie-rod geometry.

Thanks in advance for any helpful and useful advise or pictures.

 

[PST]

Can I have the casting numbers off your original idler arm and the part number of the new idler arm ,I will double check the cross for you? Perhaps pictures of the two side by side to?

Thanks
James

 

[TTR]

Thank you for your interest to offer advise James.

Here's couple of pictures of both idler arms, neither featuring any O.E. type casting number and that along with couple of other details lead us to believe the "old" one is likely an aftermarket item also.
Having provided these same images to RareParts, they seem to agree.

The part # for the new one is 268-3551.

In my thought process of elimination I came up with an idea that perhaps you or others with more experience on this era MoPars might have an answer to:
Is it possible that this car could have a K-member replaced from another variation of B-body cars, lets say '66 or '73 and this "other" variation would fit but provided slightly different idler arm bracket angle or location, just enough to create this type of problem ?

 

[bandit]

I just crawled under my 70 Charger and it looks like the parallel one not the bent one. I tried to take pictures but none of them turned out. Car is put away for winter so would need to get it up on jacks to see better.

 

[TTR]

I just crawled under my 70 Charger and it looks like the parallel one not the bent one. I tried to take pictures but none of them turned out. Car is put away for winter so would need to get it up on jacks to see better.

Thanks for trying.

 

[wvmarv]

I have been a mechanic for over 35 yrs and have done a thousand idler arms in my time. I have never seen one where both of the ends weren't parallel to each other like the new one you have. I would say someone ran into that problem and bent the one your replacing to get it back in line as best they could. I would have the parts house pull a few different idler arms off the shelf for different models, years of Chryslers and see if you can find one that the offset is closer to what you need.

 

[dodge68charger]

Im actually having the same problem on my 1969 superbee too. I haven't been able to find a solution yet

 

[Kern Dog]

I have been a mechanic for over 35 yrs and have done a thousand idler arms in my time. I have never seen one where both of the ends weren't parallel to each other like the new one you have. I would say someone ran into that problem and bent the one your replacing to get it back in line as best they could. I would have the parts house pull a few different idler arms off the shelf for different models, years of Chryslers and see if you can find one that the offset is closer to what you need.

That IS strange...
Also, the center link should be even across assuming that everything is positioned correctly. I have Fast Ratio arms in my car and mine looks even.

 

[texas69bee]

I just bought a front end rebuild kit and here is what Moog looks like for a 69 Bee. Looks parallel to me.

 

[TTR]

Thanks to all for your replies so far. Now that we have established beyond doubt the "older" arm having been bent one time or another, I'm still trying to figure out WHY it was necessary.
Obviously to provide ample clearance for the right side center link attachments (i.e. lower end of idler arm and inner tie-rod end) below right torsion bar, but why wouldn't they clear with correct/non-bent arm installed ???
So, something else must be off, but I can't see what since everything else looks about as correct as it can be and without any evidence of previous (accident) damage. Besides confirmations referenced to idler arms by many of you here, all other replacement items, including ball joints, bushings, tie-rods, etc have now been cross referenced, vetted and deemed to be correct by two different manufacturers and couple of quite experienced vendors.

Research continues...

Another research avenue I might try is to find and gain access to a prominent collection or restoration facility specializing in these cars here in southern California (L.A. area) to personally view identical steering/suspension configuration in similar car or two.
Any recommendations ?
I understand non of you know me, but if needed I'll be more than happy to provide (privately) ample amount of references from clients or colleagues alike and can promise discretion and respect of privacy for both, the cars and their owners.

 

[TTR]

Research update:
Apparently there might be some differences between K-members or their (welded on) idler arm mounting brackets on these cars. I received some pictures from another clients collection which has several this era MoPars, including some he bought new. One of the cars is apparently a '68 Charger and couple of photos of its idler arm seem to suggest a slightly different design/off-set and its mounting bracket perhaps set slightly lower also.
All this, of course, is impossible to confirm from photos, so it seems I need to go look at that car and measure all related components for comparison.
Hopefully, I can also find another (local) car or two for additional reference and if any one here has any additional useful info, I'll appreciate all the help I can get.

Couple of questions:
Are all '68 Charger steering linkage and front suspension components, including K-member, SUPPOSED TO BE exactly identical to those in '70 ?
Does any one here have access to parts catalogs for these years/models ?
My vintage MoPar parts catalog & service manual "in-house library" covers most makes/models from about 1930 only up to 1965 or so.

 

[Kern Dog]

The steering linkage is the same from the years you mention BUT the K member changed in 1970. The sway bar and lower control arms did as well.

 

[TTR]

The steering linkage is the same from the years you mention BUT the K member changed in 1970. The sway bar and lower control arms did as well.

Thank you, Sir. Do we know whether these changes were implemented right prior to, during or right after '70 model year production ?
If prior to or during production, are they minor enough to allow for "accidental(?)" mixing some of the, lets say, '68 and (late?) '70 components, like just the K-member ?

 

[TTR]

Another update:
After consulting and exchanging pictures with several well experienced collectors and restorers of this era MoPars and having gained access for research to perhaps one of worlds largest warehouses of vintage O.E.M. automotive literature including owners, parts and service manuals along with some factory engineering drawings and blueprints, it now appears the cross member and all other front end, steering & suspension components of this car are all correct.
I'm now starting to think that this particular car or more specifically its cross member has had its idler arm bracket welded to slightly incorrect angle, either by the factory or due to some accident/incident(?) earlier in the cars life.
To confirm my theory, I've secured access to few similar cars in couple of collections in L.A. area. Once compared and confirmed, I'll fix the problem either by replacing the cross member or cut/re-align/re-weld the bracket.

 

[TTR]

Final(?) update.
After somewhat exhaustive research and confirming all service part and on-car components being correct for this vehicle, I concluded the most likely cause for this "issue" being the idler arm bracket, which I believe had been mounted and welded to a slightly incorrect angle at the "factory".

To correct the problem, I cut/ground off some of the welds and made a fairly simple fixture allowing an easy yet quite precise way to change and hold the bracket in what I believe to be the correct angle before welding it back on.

In the end, everything now seems to be in appropriate enough angle/position (center link horizontal level @ +/- 0 degree and each tie-rod link @ +/- 9 degrees with front suspension adjusted to factory spec. "ride height") and should provide for acceptable results with wheel alignment scheduled for tomorrow.

I also wish to thank those who provided usefull advise on this matter.

 

[Kern Dog]

Way to go, TTR. Just like Frontier medicine or a Military field bandage, you made do with your wits and your ability. :headbang:

 

[TTR]

Way to go, TTR. Just like Frontier medicine or a Military field bandage, you made do with your wits and your ability. :headbang:

Thanks, Dog. I appreciate your enthusiastic support and great reference, but with all due respect, having personally performed my fair share of literal "field" and road side repairs on multitude of (mostly vintage) cars during long road trips (many up to 7-8000 miles each) both in Europe and all across North America, I would perhaps characterize this effort more like a well researched and planned small surgical procedure performed in a properly equipped facility to just correct a minor "birth defect". ;-)

P.S. I'm not sure if the owner is interested of coming to Spring Fling with this car, but I'll mention it to him when he picks the car up later today.
I might drive up Saturday and if I do, it'll likely be in something like this:

 

[Twalker]

Hey guys, I’m having the same issue here - photos below. Has anyone ran into this? Is my only option to change the idler arm bracket mount like TTR did? The cause of this is still a puzzler. Now, I bought this charger in pieces as someone else’s project they gave up on so I don’t have all the history on the car and the suspension components. But I’m confident I have the right idler arm for the year, and fairly certain the right k member for this 68 but looking for some other opinions / ideas.

car is a 1968 charger - build thread on here is project unicorn.
Cheers

 

[Twalker]

Not sure if this helps but if someone could compare this view of their 68 bbody it would help me - maybe this bracket is bent up somehow.

 

[Twalker]

I think I have a solution...will post up the result for the next person.