1971 Super Bee Wheel and Tire Dilemma

[MoparGuy68]

This will probably be an evolving story..

I’ve been mulling over this for 4 months.. Now that my car is drivable, I’m forced to make a decision due to 20+ year old tires.

Only decision I’ve made so far is it will be either 14” or 15” new tires on Rallye wheels. I’m not into the look of the 17+” wheels on these old cars.

Car currently has 1973 vintage 14x6 Rallye all around with vintage center caps and trim rings. Nothing is reproduction. Two wheels have a little damage to their holes in the wheel center, but it is minor. Wheels appear to have been painted the correct Argent silver years ago, and have a few scrapes/surface rust spots on them. Trim rings are brushed, like they would have been if this car came with Rallye new.

Old tires are 245/60/14 all around. I like their width. They are too wide for the wheels, should be on 7 inch wheels. They are also on the short side about 25.59” tall. A prior owner must have been wanting the widest tire that was available to physically mount on them. They bulge too much, you can really see it on the inside of the wheels. The trim ring disguises the bulge on the outside a bit, making it not “look” as bad.

Widest radial anyone makes in 70/14 is 225 width. I’ve had these before and they don’t look as good as 245. Last time I had 225/70/14 was on my 1971 Challenger's original 14x5 steels, again too wide for the wheels. After 6.5 years of that I got 15x7 steels wheels a pair of 73 and a pair 77 vintage, for a few dollars each, the cost was nothing back then (1992). And put 245/60/15 Eagle ST on them. Was very happy with that combo. I remember the 77 wheels would NOT mount on the rear hubs, only on the front hubs. Car had 10” manual drum all around.

I’m mulling over 225/70/14 radial on my 14x6. Or G70-14 Polyglas on my 14x6. Or 245/60/15 radial on 15x7. Or F60-15 Polyglas GT on 15x7. Or G60-15 Polyglas GT on 15x7.

I've considered staggered 14" on front with 15" on rear, but not sure if I will like that look.. Hoping that by writing all this, it will somehow help me make a decision.


Wheels:

70/71 vintage 15x7 Rallye are hard to find for sale and usually quite expensive. I don’t think I’ve seen a full set of 72/73 vintage 15x7 Rallye for sale since I’ve been looking..

Reproduction are either Coker or Wheel Vintiques, I think that is it.. I feel I’d be making a gamble with buying repro wheels and trim rings. These repro wheels are powder coated in a silver that doesn’t look like Argent silver. So I'd have to blast new wheels and then paint them, just like I would with old vintage wheels.. The guy I spoke with at Coker had nothing nice to say about the made in Asia repro trim rings.. He just said the ones they’ve been receiving were so poorly made, they had to reject them and send them back.

Tires:

Milestar StreetSteel:
Good: Tread and tire overall more like the OEM Bias-Ply in appearance
Bad: Raised checkered flag pattern on sidewall is unappealing and kind of annoying to look at

Cooper Cobra Radial G/T
Good: Classic RWL sidewall look, no goofy raised flag pattern
Bad: For me the word “Cobra” on the white lettering, but probably me nit picking. Tread nothing like Bias-Ply with a weird wave pattern.

BFG Radial T/A
Good: Classic RWL sidewall look, no goofy raised flag pattern
Bad: Raised white letters turn brown (tons of complaints online about this). Tread nothing like Bias-Ply, but ok looking.

Reproduction Goodyear Polyglas and GT by Kelsey Tire:
Good: Exact replica of OEM tires. Looks exactly like it should. Looks great on the cars.
Bad: Bias-Ply construction doesn’t have any of the radial construction benefits. Tires follow ruts/grooves in road, etc. If car is not driven frequently, like mine, tires may develop flat spots more easily than radials. Way more expensive than any of the above radials.

 

[whyjay]

Beautiful car.
I’m running 15x7 rallyes on my 71. It’s what the car came with and they look great. I had the option of going with the repro Polyglas GT tires but decided that was a step backwards even for an occasional driver and mounted BFG 245/60’s. I can still remember the first time driving the car in 1982 after making the switch from bias ply tires to radials. But just my 2cents. YMMV

 

[F4R/T]

Get a set of coopers and hit the road, if you want put them on a set of daily driver wheels and keep a set to swap back on with some poly glass tires for show duty.... not the cheapest way but then you got both!
NICE car too!

 

[fc7_plumcrazy]

ok, here is how it looks like on my GY3 Bee.
correct original F70-14 Polyglas (G70-14 wasn't available on 71 Bees)

 

[33 IMP]

Your 71 is gorgeous, and i have always liked the rallyes, and they look good on your car.
But, its my opinion, worthless as it is, that the fuselage cars have such giant wheelwells that they need huge tires to fill them.
Since you have restricted choice to 14 or 15s, i would switch to 15s all around for tire selection and availability reasons. That way you can get whatever size you want without being limited to 14" tire sizes. (Though there is nothing wrong with 14s front, 15s rear, if you can get the sizes you want (i would bet not one in ten would notice).
There are threads both here and fabo on the cobras. They would be my choice over the t/a's. I have coopers (had two sets) on my pickup, they would influence my decision.

 

[duster22]

Being you are just going with 245 , you could find a set of 15 x 6.5 ralley wheels , only thing about them , is the trim rings are sometimes hard to find , no repops , just orginals.
There is a GM ring , that fits and looks right , just in case , but still kinda hard to find.

Frank

 

[Scott72GTX]

I agree that there is a lot of wheel well to fill. I recently installed 15x8 Steelies all around. 275 in rear and 245 in front. These aren’t the best pics, but all I have on my phone at this time.

 

[Scott72GTX]

I have installed the original 14” poverty caps, no shown in pics. Definitely fills the wheel wells now!

 

[YY1]

Being you are just going with 245 , you could find a set of 15 x 6.5 ralley wheels , only thing about them , is the trim rings are sometimes hard to find , no repops , just orginals.
There is a GM ring , that fits and looks right , just in case , but still kinda hard to find.

Frank

I thought that too, but actually aftermarket rings for 15x6.4 were produced for a while.
Still not easy to find but I found some here on FBBO.

Used to be 6.5's were easy to find and cheap because nobody wanted them.
Now x7 are much easier to find repro anyway, and that can affect the price of originals.

I'm running 215 70 14 on 5.5 in the front and 255 60 15 on 6.5 in the rear on my 73 Satellite.

They look great with no bulge and the rear wells look filled, as if that size was supposed to be there from the factory.

 

[MoparGuy68]

ok, here is how it looks like on my GY3 Bee.
correct original F70-14 Polyglas (G70-14 wasn't available on 71 Bees)

View attachment 1048033 View attachment 1048034 View attachment 1048035 View attachment 1048036 View attachment 1048037 View attachment 1048038

We both have GY3 Bees. Do you have 14x5.5 Rallye on yours? With the shadows under the car it disguises the skinny F70 tires. But these are steel horses with horsepower and horses have skinny legs.. To be more horse like maybe our cars should have skinny tires..

I have to disagree about G70-14 tires not being available on 1971 Super Bees. The Hemi Super Bee featured in this link was ordered with G70-14 on Road wheels, which I believe were only available in 14x5.5 size in 70/71. There is a photo of the car’s window sticker which clearly shows it came with T93 Tires - G70x14 Raised White Letters.

I should start referring to all the factory 14” wheels/tires as horse legs. Your Bee and the Hemi in the link are equipped with horse legs! I have to decide if I want to go with horse legs too..

https://moparconnectionmagazine.com/gallery-mike-boswells-1971-dodge-charger-super-bee/

 

[MoparGuy68]

I agree that there is a lot of wheel well to fill. I recently installed 15x8 Steelies all around. 275 in rear and 245 in front. These aren’t the best pics, but all I have on my phone at this time.

View attachment 1048558 View attachment 1048559

I cannot get full lock to lock turning out of my Borgeson gearbox, with my existing wheel/tire combo in the front. 245/60/14 on 14x6 with 4” backspacing, hit my inner frame rails. The rear inner sidewall makes contact with the frame rails. My gearbox is capable of 3.5+ turns lock to lock. My wheels/tires only allow 3.25 turns lock to lock.

With your 15x8 with 245 on the front you must be hitting frame rails too? How could you not be?

My 1971 Challenger had the same issue. Turning lock to lock, no contact with 225/70/14 on 14x5. When I switched to 245/60/15 on 15x7, the rear side walls hit the frame rails. I could no longer do a 180° turn in the street without stopping and backing up in reverse. Unless doing a “Kowalski” style u-turn..

 

[Scott72GTX]

I cannot get full lock to lock turning out of my Borgeson gearbox, with my existing wheel/tire combo in the front. 245/60/14 on 14x6 with 4” backspacing, hit my inner frame rails. The rear inner sidewall makes contact with the frame rails. My gearbox is capable of 3.5+ turns lock to lock. My wheels/tires only allow 3.25 turns lock to lock.

With your 15x8 with 245 on the front you must be hitting frame rails too? How could you not be?

My 1971 Challenger had the same issue. Turning lock to lock, no contact with 225/70/14 on 14x5. When I switched to 245/60/15 on 15x7, the rear side walls hit the frame rails. I could no longer do a 180° turn in the street without stopping and backing up in reverse. Unless doing a “Kowalski” style u-turn..

To be honest, I installed the wheels and tires, used the car a little and it went in the garage for some winter work. So it’s on the lift and can’t really test it. I assumed all was good. I can check the frame to see if it’s been hitting, but I never heard anything. I am running the stock steering box. I assume it is hitting the rear back side of the front tire?

 

[fc7_plumcrazy]

We both have GY3 Bees. Do you have 14x5.5 Rallye on yours? With the shadows under the car it disguises the skinny F70 tires. But these are steel horses with horsepower and horses have skinny legs.. To be more horse like maybe our cars should have skinny tires..

I have to disagree about G70-14 tires not being available on 1971 Super Bees. The Hemi Super Bee featured in this link was ordered with G70-14 on Road wheels, which I believe were only available in 14x5.5 size in 70/71. There is a photo of the car’s window sticker which clearly shows it came with T93 Tires - G70x14 Raised White Letters.

I should start referring to all the factory 14” wheels/tires as horse legs. Your Bee and the Hemi in the link are equipped with horse legs! I have to decide if I want to go with horse legs too..

https://moparconnectionmagazine.com/gallery-mike-boswells-1971-dodge-charger-super-bee/

I stand corrected.
Didn't know that had optional G70-14s in 1971.

The Rallies on my Bee are the original wheels and are 14x6.

In 1970 the G70-14 was not available:

https://www.hamtramck-historical.com/images/dealerships/DealershipDataBook/1970/70_Coronet0011.jpg

Carsten

 

[MoparGuy68]

I stand corrected.
Didn't know that had optional G70-14s in 1971.

The Rallies on my Bee are the original wheels and are 14x6.

In 1970 the G70-14 was not available:

https://www.hamtramck-historical.com/images/dealerships/DealershipDataBook/1970/70_Coronet0011.jpg

Carsten

According to my research, if your car has 14x6 Rallye they cannot be original to the car. 14x6 Rallye were not available until the 73 model year. And they were only available on B-Body, not on E or A-Body, during 73/74. The ONLY 14” Rallye available on any car in 70-72 was the 14x5.5.

I was wondering if my wheels were original to the car when I bought it.. I then started doing a lot of research on the wheels. My car has the 3580068 Rallye 14x6 5x4.5, made on 11/5/72 at Motorwheel plant 1. There is a different part number for the 70-72 14x5.5 5x4.5 which I don’t have handy right now..

If your wheels actually measure 14x6 then I’d like to see the part number on them, and the manufacture date (both are located near the valve stem hole).

I have attached a photo of the original Operators Manual that came with my car when it was bought new. I have also included a shot of the page that shows the available tire sizes.

Strangely there is no mention of the F60-15 in the manual, it only shows G60-15. F60-15 was supposed to be the standard tire size on the Hemi cars on 15x7 wheels. Was that only in 70, and they changed to G60-15 for 71?

Again, from my research of the three wheel types Steel, Road and Rallye, only the steel wheels were available in 14x6 in 70-72. Unfortunately, my manual doesn’t specify what wheel types were available in what sizes.. Prior to my research I thought 14x5.5 Rallye only came on A-Body, which is not true.

 

[MoparGuy68]

Still undecided.. But haven't been thinking about tires too much the past few days with all that has been going down in DC this week..

To take my mind off it, I started watching some car videos again tonight. I saw this Drag match video of a 70 Challenger 440 SixPack R/T vs a 69 Camaro COPO 427 ZL1. I noticed both cars were running exhaust manifolds and Polyglas G70-14 tires. Both with steel, probably 14x6 wheels. Both cars ran in the 11s and looked pretty darn good on those G70-14 Goodyears! I could put a set of those on my 14x6 wheels..

Never ran bias-ply on my 71 Challenger, but it did have steel wheels with dog dishes like the Challenger in the video. I need to scan some old photos of my Challenger and post them.

 

[MoparGuy68]

I have installed the original 14” poverty caps, no shown in pics. Definitely fills the wheel wells now!

Did you have the broadcast sheet for your car? If so, what is the wheel code on it?

 

[Scott72GTX]

Did you have the broadcast sheet for your car? If so, what is the wheel code on it?

 

[MoparGuy68]

Here are some photos of my 1971 Challenger. It was GB5 Blue with a Blue interior. These photos were taken on the weekend that I sold the car, back in November 1998. The last photos I ever took of it. It had 15x7 wheels and 245/60/15 tires all around for the last 6 years that I had it. The center caps were original to the car. I transferred them over from the original 14x5 steel wheels.

In my opinion, those wheels and tires filled the wheel wells nicely. I see no reason to have put 17” or bigger wheels on that car..

Looking at it now, I tend to think the size of the white lettering on those Eagle ST tires was a bit cartoonish looking. I chose them over BFG because I preferred to have the Goodyear brand name displayed on the tires.

I also have older photos of it with the original 14” steel wheels. I’ll have to scan some of those too.

The hood scoops, of course, were not original to the car, but they were vintage Ramcharger scoops. The second owner of the car chose to put them on it back in 1984. I was the third owner and never took them off..

Car had the Deputy package and came with white side stripes from the factory. Second owner had the car repainted and changed the stripes to black.

This car had the exact same scheduled build date as my Super Bee. One of the reasons I decided to buy the Super Bee..

 

[MoparGuy68]

These are the first photos I've taken, outside of my garage, of the car since I've had it. When it's out of my little garage you can better see what the current wheels/tires look like. This combination has the width/sidewall I like. But tires are too wide for the rims and outside diameter is an inch smaller than OEM tires. In the photos the tires are inflated to only 28 PSI. I've done this because they are too wide for the rims and to have lower pressure in an attempt to reduce the possibility of a blow-out.

If I put 225/70/14 all around, I think I won't be happy with the look.. That's the least expensive option. Trying to obtain (if I can find any) vintage 70-71 15x7 is the most expensive option, probably the most expensive wheel I could possibly put on the car other than solid 24 karat gold wheels.

The repro stuff is difficult to obtain now too (apparently because of COVID), especially the trim rings. And from what I've seen the repro trim rings don't look anything like the vintage ones, are made in Asia and they don't fit well. If these tires weren't so damn old, I'd just leave them on.. If I buy new of the same, the letters will likely turn brown.. They will NOT be the same tires that are on it now. 21 years old and the letters are white. New ones turn brown.. Every option I have there is something bad about it..

 

[fc7_plumcrazy]

These are the first photos I've taken, outside of my garage, of the car since I've had it. When it's out of my little garage you can better see what the current wheels/tires look like. This combination has the width/sidewall I like. But tires are too wide for the rims and outside diameter is an inch smaller than OEM tires. In the photos the tires are inflated to only 28 PSI. I've done this because they are too wide for the rims and to have lower pressure in an attempt to reduce the possibility of a blow-out.

If I put 225/70/14 all around, I think I won't be happy with the look.. That's the least expensive option. Trying to obtain (if I can find any) vintage 70-71 15x7 is the most expensive option, probably the most expensive wheel I could possibly put on the car other than solid 24 karat gold wheels.

The repro stuff is difficult to obtain now too (apparently because of COVID), especially the trim rings. And from what I've seen the repro trim rings don't look anything like the vintage ones, are made in Asia and they don't fit well. If these tires weren't so damn old, I'd just leave them on.. If I buy new of the same, the letters will likely turn brown.. They will NOT be the same tires that are on it now. 21 years old and the letters are white. New ones turn brown.. Every option I have there is something bad about it..

View attachment 1056060 View attachment 1056061 View attachment 1056062 View attachment 1056063 View attachment 1056064 View attachment 1056065 View attachment 1056066 View attachment 1056067

to me the outside diameter would be too small. Does not look nice to me looking from the side.

If you like the tire size and the tires show no craking or aging: I would continue to drive them honestly even though it has a certain risk