440 build specs.......thoughts?

[wyrmrider]

727 has some correct insights
check the hard seats
but we did hard seats all the time in these heads
not too deep a seat if I remember correctly
Performance Shop should have known what they were doing

 

[67MPRFAN]

What about the HV oil pump using only a 6qt oil pan that will probably suck that engine dry when running

 

[Curiousyellow71]

727 has some correct insights
check the hard seats
but we did hard seats all the time in these heads
not too deep a seat if I remember correctly
Performance Shop should have known what they were doing

Wyrmrider and 727...It sounds like both of you worked a lot of these 516 closed chamber heads...wouldn't the valves need to be unshrouded a bunch with 2.14s. Did you have any luck unshrouding? On the flow bench we worked on the port with 2.08s and hit a limit to the flow...but we never ushrouded them...we figured that was what we needed to do next...but never got around too it...already had too much time invested...and installed them. They are the only 516s we ported...haven't seen a pair since. Just curious on your thoughts...always bothered me then no magic happened porting them with the amount of time I invested.
Don't want to hijack the thread...just asking from those with more experience.

 

[Mstone68440RR]

Thanks to all who replied with valuable info.

So it looks like the general consensus is that the 516 heads are outdated ( but useable) compression is too high for iron heads- detonation issues. Coupled with too small of a cam.

Recommended to tear down and inspect motor, upgrade to a decent set of Aluminum heads (440 Stealth maybe) and have a better cam selected to suit a healthier street/strip combo.

So knowing all the above, I am more inclined to lower my offer for the motor since several things need to be addressed. I was thinking $3k would be a good deal prior to finding out the cam, piston, and head specs. Would $2,500 still be reasonable for the motor as is? I really doubt the seller is interested in keeping the heads..........but I will ask him.

As a side note, what would a rebuilt set of 516’s with new larger SS valves be worth if either of us were to try and sell them to offset other costs.

Thanks,

Mark

 

[Kern Dog]

What about the HV oil pump using only a 6qt oil pan that will probably suck that engine dry when running

That does not happen. I have run the same high volume type pumps with 5 and 6 quart pans and have never had this problem. THis is a myth. A clean engine drains back quite well.

 

[727]

Wyrmrider and 727...It sounds like both of you worked a lot of these 516 closed chamber heads...wouldn't the valves need to be unshrouded a bunch with 2.14s. Did you have any luck unshrouding? On the flow bench we worked on the port with 2.08s and hit a limit to the flow...but we never ushrouded them...we figured that was what we needed to do next...but never got around too it...already had too much time invested...and installed them. They are the only 516s we ported...haven't seen a pair since. Just curious on your thoughts...always bothered me then no magic happened porting them with the amount of time I invested.
Don't want to hijack the thread...just asking from those with more experience.

Mine had a slight unschrouding done to them. I think these are decent street motor heads. You can lower the compression with head gaskets. I think these 2355's with a .040" head gasket and a factory closed chamber should be in the 10.0-1 range. If you,re going racing, buy some aluminum heads

 

[BSB67]

Mine had a slight unschrouding done to them. I think these are decent street motor heads. You can lower the compression with head gaskets. I think these 2355's with a .040" head gasket and a factory closed chamber should be in the 10.0-1 range. If you,re going racing, buy some aluminum heads

We've had zero luck with 10:1 iron head with no quench and a small cam (<230°) with pump premium at 1000 ft.

 

[Curiousyellow71]

Thanks to all who replied with valuable info.

So it looks like the general consensus is that the 516 heads are outdated ( but useable) compression is too high for iron heads- detonation issues. Coupled with too small of a cam.

Recommended to tear down and inspect motor, upgrade to a decent set of Aluminum heads (440 Stealth maybe) and have a better cam selected to suit a healthier street/strip combo.

So knowing all the above, I am more inclined to lower my offer for the motor since several things need to be addressed. I was thinking $3k would be a good deal prior to finding out the cam, piston, and head specs. Would $2,500 still be reasonable for the motor as is? I really doubt the seller is interested in keeping the heads..........but I will ask him.

As a side note, what would a rebuilt set of 516’s with new larger SS valves be worth if either of us were to try and sell them to offset other costs.

Thanks,

Mark

I think you are on the right track here. Imo the rebuilt 516 heads would be excellent for someone to put on a 383 and keep it original. I wouldn't doubt that there was 1200-1500 put into them. I'd try to get 1/2 that if I were selling them.
If you choose to run the 516s... With the right cam choice it should work depending on what the deck height is with quench and correct head gasket. I think several have mentioned that.... but the cam would be pretty big....Imo the single plane is not a good fit for 516s in any scenario I can think of.... other then eye candy. And the cam in there now just needs to be removed...

 

[wyrmrider]

BSB get's it right without a lot of work tuning and timing
If you are considering doing this PM Yellow Rose over on FABO
Doable with quench

727
If you have no quench anyway because the pistons are down the hole then head gaskets sorta work
I say sorta because they do not help the underlying problem
remember Chrysler dropped compression by drooping the pistons down the hole
power went down, combustion temps went up
gas mileage sucked
2355's with an uncut deck are slightly down the hole so no effective quench with fel pro gaskets
can have quench with Mr Gasket .028 gaskets
measure everything carefully, cc the heads, etc

on unshrouding
first get the heads as best you can over the bores with locating pins
then scribe the bores onto the heads and with a hook or make a templet scribe the chambers on top of the block
remember these heads were used almost exclusively on 4.1875bore 413 to 4.250 383's

You can use tooling to open the chambers to your bore scribe line
more and you have to chamfer the decks
I do not remember using the 2.14 valves in those heads as they came later
However many have put the 2.14 x 1.81 valves in these heads and claim success
IDK of any flow data
I'd put the 1.74 ex in to give a new seat
and when that wore out if ever go to the 1.81
and not screw with seats

http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/bb/62.html
valve jobs differ
"this particular 516, which had never had any valve jobs other than OEM" and the 516 still has the 1.6 valves in the first test (or not - you read the story)
BTW most 915 heads also have the 1.6 valve
(so more meat to work with

The answer to street with 516 or 915 heads is to D Dish the pistons- use the popular TRW "TURBO" SBC piston as a design sample and match the quench area (or lay it back a bit (or polish) when you open the chambers

 

[Lefty71]

@Lefty71 is an incurable optimist, 518s are 64 max heads. I can almost guarantee they won't be

Sometimes miracles do happen tho.

 

[33 IMP]

Sometimes miracles do happen tho.View attachment 853945

Lol. I've got a pair like that(actually two pair), mine are 286s tho, pro ported many years ago. I just had them freshened by IMM. I'd post pix, but i'm 200 miles away.

 

[67Satty]

Depending on machine work that was done already, the TRW 2355 pistons will be close to zero deck.

Considering that you'll want to change the heads, cam and tear the whole thing down for inspection...I'd offer $2K tops.

 

[wyrmrider]

If you have to put seats in the 1.81 valve works as well as the 1.88 depending on what work has been done unfortunately hard to put metal back in
2355's are usually down a little but I had one block where they ended up +015 as it took that much to get the block square
We were d dishing the pistons so could make compression where we wanted it

 

[turbine68rt]

That does not happen. I have run the same high volume type pumps with 5 and 6 quart pans and have never had this problem. THis is a myth. A clean engine drains back quite well.

Agreed...According to Melling, about the only reasons why you would experience starvation when using a HV pump is either a low oil level or restricted return galleys. Not because of the extra volume.