lewtot184
Well-Known Member
having never seen a "blow" exactly like this i have to wonder if there were other issues (other than this gasket) that may have doomed any gasket.
440 Head Gasket Advice
- Thread starter moparmark440
- Start date
Well, I know a good number of engine builders in southern Ontario ... and none of them will use Cometics without the proper finish. Anyhow, if you're going to offer advice you should probably err of the side of caution. No doubt you'll get the last word in so as not to loose this debate but I've said my piece.
Geoff 2
Well-Known Member
Couple of comments:
- beware of 'look-a-like' ARP fasteners. I received some in a kit from a well known Mopar supplier & they used ARP tq numbers for tightening. I contacted ARP & they said if the fastener is NOT engraved with ARP, it is not an ARP fastener.
- using ARP tq #s on non ARP fasteners might be over-torqueing the fastener.
- I suspect the gasket damage might have been caused fasteners bottoming out. I have had few occasions where aftermarket bolts were too long & bottomed out.
- beware of 'look-a-like' ARP fasteners. I received some in a kit from a well known Mopar supplier & they used ARP tq numbers for tightening. I contacted ARP & they said if the fastener is NOT engraved with ARP, it is not an ARP fastener.
- using ARP tq #s on non ARP fasteners might be over-torqueing the fastener.
- I suspect the gasket damage might have been caused fasteners bottoming out. I have had few occasions where aftermarket bolts were too long & bottomed out.
I agree. Proper inspection of the surface is important.
Why not use head studs?
lewtot184
Well-Known Member
the gasket blowing/flame cutting directly to the bolt is suspicious to me. flame cutting directly into a water passage is very odd to me.
Lefty71
Well-Known Member
For sure, I agree. But what is most important (and I guess I should have said more bluntly to start with), is the root cause of the damage must be located and remedied. This is way more important that WHOS parts you use to put it back together with. Many good tips passed along by the members here, but you've got to know for sure what happened in this unusual situation.
Rebelrouser
Well-Known Member
They are stainless steel, which is very tough, but a head gasket is also supposed to conform to slight irregularities as well. The makers of the gaskets require a very smooth finish, because of the fact that stainless steel is so hard it does not conform. Old muscle car engines were not machined to the spec required. Multilayer steel gaskets were developed because of the scrubbing action of an aluminum head on an iron block. Back in the 80's and 90's I changed enough head gaskets to put my kids through college for that very reason.
I think you get best results by following manufactures recommendations. Best head gasket for older engines is a copper gasket, if again installed the correct way. Top Fuel still uses copper gaskets, money is not object with them, so it has to be good right?
mountain33
Well-Known Member
Would copper coat help him on this problem?
1 Wild R/T
Well-Known Member
As others have stated the root cause has to be pinpointed... The fact the gasket blew at the bolt points to the bolt either not getting torqued which I doubt or possibly the bolt is to long & bottomed in the hole... Something prevented it from applying compressive force directly below the bolt...
The fact the gasket blew in a second location may indicate the bolt at that location was bottomed out too... Screw the bolts into the block & measure the exposed length & compare it to the head thickness at the bolt hole boss...
Those PT gaskets don't give many problems & the failure is odd... Also clean the deck throughtly, stone it off & check the deck with a machinists straight edge... I'd suggest have the heads surfaced, aluminum doesn't like being exposed to a blow torch...
The fact the gasket blew in a second location may indicate the bolt at that location was bottomed out too... Screw the bolts into the block & measure the exposed length & compare it to the head thickness at the bolt hole boss...
Those PT gaskets don't give many problems & the failure is odd... Also clean the deck throughtly, stone it off & check the deck with a machinists straight edge... I'd suggest have the heads surfaced, aluminum doesn't like being exposed to a blow torch...
mikerman
Member
Did up 440 not stroked,but similar build.
Don't know how you came up with your c.r. without a parallel deck on block. I used Arp head bolts, .027 Cometics. No heat problems. Had custom 4 core rad built on stock upper tank. Big money, but maintains stock appearance.
gtxrt
Well-Known Member
i like mahle graphite head gaskets
lewtot184
Well-Known Member
something that would worry me is the flame cut into a main water passage by #1 cylinder. that would have to pull in a lot of water and what prevented the engine from locking up? i think everything has to come apart for inspection. especially pay careful attention to bent rods and bound up wrist pins. piston ring grooves may have taken a hit too.
Cartel
Active Member
are they using the copper spray on those?
mikerman
Member
All good advice you are getting. My 440 much same as yours, but I had block parallel decked for 10 in the hole icon forged slugs. Phoned Arp for the right headbolts. Used Cometic .027's 4.410.
Trick Flow 240's. Final comp 10.23:1
No problems with this one.
Trick Flow 240's. Final comp 10.23:1
No problems with this one.
I should have said, the viton coating will eventually, degrade . In that case yes, copper coats are used.
If all else fails, the OP could try Lisa's gaskets - they take up any slack and fill gaps.
My bet is the answer lies here. Dry threads. The torque wrench would show the correct reading. But the fastener wasn't stretched far enough due to the friction of dry thtreads. If the head and block are flat and undamaged? A new gasket (I like the Fel Pro 8519 idea in this apllication) and proper torque procedure should do it. A trick taught to me long ago by Dave Koffel. Lube the the threads and under the head of the bolt. If using a washers, lube the upper side only. Set the torque wrench low and torque in sequence. I use 30lb/ft. This gets everything set. Then in sequence torque to spec. No need to creep up on the spec in steps. Wait a few minutes. Then break each fastener loose in sequence and retorque to spec. You will be amazed how much further the fastener rotates. Been building motors using this method for over 40 years. Never failed a head gasket. Even running Felpro's on boosted applications.
Doug
BigMopar440
New Member
Break loose center out or reverse order?
Start from #1 in the sequence and folow just like the original pattern.
Doug
Similar threads
