440 mopar rods

[Jerry Hall]

It's hard to build a stock 440 for 5K this day and time. Just your basic wants are more than twice that.

 

[33 IMP]

I would....
1. Budget for aluminum aftermarket heads. Putting a bunch of money in old iron heads is a waste. (I put $900 into freshening a set of iron heads, but they were professionally ported max wedge. I doubt I'd do it again.)
2. Forged flattops. (I wouldn't even dream of a nitrous shot with hypers!)
3. Solid flat tappet cam, and the rockers/pushrods necessary.
4. Aftermarket rods, with good bolts. 0 cycles verses who-knows how many cycles, plus resizing work (by a machinist that knows what he's doing, not cheap) plus good bolts. (I'd get em from Molnar. )

Now, I've done only two of those things (forged pistons and solid cam) and made 500 pretty easily....but all four would be what I'd do today....... but I'd add a stroker crank to the mix.

 

[pnora]

It's a small block 71, so same mounts, and the trans just needs a bellhousing and I can reuse clutch and flywheel.
You're right on the brackets and pulleys, I'm not too far bad on it compared because the only thing power i have is power steering and I can get the bracket for the BB pretty cheaply.
I already have a champion radiator that works, and already have a MSD box too
It should be one of the more easier swaps out there hopefully

Mounts are different. You also will need the BB water pump housing and pump, Oil pan, dipstick and tube. Your clutch might not be up to 500 plus hp. Start your list it will add up quick.

 

[340runner]

Mounts are different. You also will need the BB water pump housing and pump, Oil pan, dipstick and tube. Your clutch might not be up to 500 plus hp. Start your list it will add up quick.

I would....
1. Budget for aluminum aftermarket heads. Putting a bunch of money in old iron heads is a waste. (I put $900 into freshening a set of iron heads, but they were professionally ported max wedge. I doubt I'd do it again.)
2. Forged flattops. (I wouldn't even dream of a nitrous shot with hypers!)
3. Solid flat tappet cam, and the rockers/pushrods necessary.
4. Aftermarket rods, with good bolts. 0 cycles verses who-knows how many cycles, plus resizing work (by a machinist that knows what he's doing, not cheap) plus good bolts. (I'd get em from Molnar. )

Now, I've done only two of those things (forged pistons and solid cam) and made 500 pretty easily....but all four would be what I'd do today....... but I'd add a stroker crank to the mix.

Well, I'll save the extra 1000$ and at the point drop in a stroker, 3500$ for that the top end speedmaster kit is another 1900$ 600ish for a cam and those goodies, yeah it's about 10k roughly accounting everything else like machining the block and the small ****. I guess it's time to start working and chipping away at this lump of cash i need.

 

[33 IMP]

Well, I'll save the extra 1000$ and at the point drop in a stroker, 3500$ for that the top end speedmaster kit is another 1900$ 600ish for a cam and those goodies, yeah it's about 10k roughly accounting everything else like machining the block and the small ****. I guess it's time to start working and chipping away at this lump of cash i need.

If you've got time, and don't mind chinese parts (im guessing you don't, referring to speedmaster topend) you can save a bunch by keeping track of their sales, or waiting till black friday sales
I got a ridiculous deal a couple years back on a topend kit for a bbc on black friday.

 

[Geoff 2]

With the $$$$ that is to be spent on this engine, a set of H beam rods would be veeeeeeeeeeeeery worthwhile.

They have a number of benefits that stock rods do not have & all are failure points:
- better metal
- 7/16" bolts [ factory has 3/8" ]
- not machined for head of the bolt which leaves a critically weak spot
- metal is only added where strength, leading to a lighter rod.

 

[R413]

You are going to need lots more money besides the 10G's for the engine. Now you need a Dana 60 and a good clutch. Then the trans is going to break. Driveshaft?

You are better off with the small block.

Or do what I did at 16, bracket race a mostly stock car and make tons of laps with little trouble. Had a blast!

The build something later when you have the money

 

[340runner]

You are going to need lots more money besides the 10G's for the engine. Now you need a Dana 60 and a good clutch. Then the trans is going to break. Driveshaft?

You are better off with the small block.

Or do what I did at 16, bracket race a mostly stock car and make tons of laps with little trouble. Had a blast!

The build something later when you have the money

Well, i want the torque that a big block brings, and I'm willing to live with the fact I need to get a dana 60. I'll also have to shorten the driveshaft. The only thing I don't have/ aren't ready for right now now is a 18 spline trans, but is that really that big of a issue with my wanted power?

 

[33 IMP]

I have always advocated for a cheap non-collectable car to go racing/have fun with, rather than modifying a collectable.
Franky, I'd make your runner as nice and dependable as possible, and look for a small, light, cheap ride to put a hotrod motor in. (Read: late 70s Duster or equivalent, or maybe a very early A-body, and stick to a small block).

 

[340runner]

I have always advocated for a cheap non-collectable car to go racing/have fun with, rather than modifying a collectable.
Franky, I'd make your runner as nice and dependable as possible, and look for a small, light, cheap ride to put a hotrod motor in. (Read: late 70s Duster or equivalent, or maybe a very early A-body, and stick to a small block).

Well, that's the thing. I don't have the stock heads or cam, intake, carb, exhaust manifold or whatever for the car, don't have the stock radiator, don't even have the heater core or any original AC, the car has a disc conversion kit, the paints not original and is frankly ****, it's on a black vinyl top and not a white one like its supposed to be (though I want to change this). It's originally a open 3.23 car for diff. My point I'm trying to make is I don't have a lot of the stuff to make this a "collector car" and while I'm not going to go out and destroy the car, I'd like to pep it up where I can without doing anything drastic. The motor mounts should be the same, I don't know why someone said they aren't, they are. The clutch is the same, and swapping in a dana 60 isn't too bad. The really only thing that'd be irreversible is shortening the driveshaft, but if it came to that I might go with a lighter model to avoid that issue.

It's a nice driver quality car, and I'm happy with that as I don't want to be scared to drive the damn thing. Me swapping in another engine is actually better for keeping up the value as the risk becomes basically none of the engine exploding and sending a rod through the block and there goes the original one.

 

[pnora]

Well, that's the thing. I don't have the stock heads or cam, intake, carb, exhaust manifold or whatever for the car, don't have the stock radiator, don't even have the heater core or any original AC, the car has a disc conversion kit, the paints not original and is frankly ****, it's on a black vinyl top and not a white one like its supposed to be (though I want to change this). It's originally a open 3.23 car for diff. My point I'm trying to make is I don't have a lot of the stuff to make this a "collector car" and while I'm not going to go out and destroy the car, I'd like to pep it up where I can without doing anything drastic. The motor mounts should be the same, I don't know why someone said they aren't, they are. The clutch is the same, and swapping in a dana 60 isn't too bad. The really only thing that'd be irreversible is shortening the driveshaft, but if it came to that I might go with a lighter model to avoid that issue.

It's a nice driver quality car, and I'm happy with that as I don't want to be scared to drive the damn thing. Me swapping in another engine is actually better for keeping up the value as the risk becomes basically none of the engine exploding and sending a rod through the block and there goes the original one.

The mounts are not the same. The rubber cushions might be but the mounts that bolt to the block are different between a small block and big block. Mounts are the least of your worries. For what you have I would be looking at a stroker small block.

 

[340runner]

The mounts are not the same. The rubber cushions might be but the mounts that bolt to the block are different between a small block and big block. Mounts are the least of your worries. For what you have I would be looking at a stroker small block.

Ohh, I see what you mean, sorry for the misunderstanding yeah the brackets are different

 

[Curiousyellow71]

I typically am a advocate to keep a original engine in a car. Once it gets seperated, it may never find its way back. But, if you plan to really thrash on it, that is a good reason to swap it. Likely for your budget building a stroked 360 is your best option and move parts over to it off your 340.

As for a 440, stock rods w arp bolts can usually handle 550hp or bit more. But adding nos to me is a smart move to h beams.
A late 70s rv 440 should have 452 heads. Which are a good head, they have hardened exhaust seats. We have a ported set off a low mileage rv we have run for more then 30 years. They flow just shy of 270 cfm on our flow bench. They are capable enough to meet your goals, but that took a lot of work, mopar used some hard cast iron. If they need a bunch of work, go aluminum. We have run a 440 that ran a 11.6 at the track with stock heads, just with a nice valve job. If you scrounge and look for big block parts used and have a decent machine shop to work with it could be done in your budget. If you just order new parts and the shop charges a premium, 5k will be gone real fast.

 

[340runner]

I typically am a advocate to keep a original engine in a car. Once it gets seperated, it may never find its way back. But, if you plan to really thrash on it, that is a good reason to swap it. Likely for your budget building a stroked 360 is your best option and move parts over to it off your 340.

As for a 440, stock rods w arp bolts can usually handle 550hp or bit more. But adding nos to me is a smart move to h beams.
A late 70s rv 440 should have 452 heads. Which are a good head, they have hardened exhaust seats. We have a ported set off a low mileage rv we have run for more then 30 years. They flow just shy of 270 cfm on our flow bench. They are capable enough to meet your goals, but that took a lot of work, mopar used some hard cast iron. We have run a 440 that ran a 11.6 at the track with stock heads, just with a nice valve job. If you scrounge and look for big block parts used and have a decent machine shop to work with it could be done in your budget. If you just order new parts and the shop charges a premium, 5k will be gone real fast.

That's the plan, try to scrounge around used parts, I was planning on just getting new pistons but hell if I find good condition good pistons I'll use them.

I'm keeping the block safe from elements, going to wrap it and do my best to protect it

Now for the stroker, can I just kind of get a 360 block cleaned, get a 426 kit and girdle from hughes then swap LITERALLY EVERYTHING ELSE OVER if its all in good condition. I mean everything besides the 1 time use hardware
Heads, intake, carb, cam, pushrods, valvetrain, headers, harmonic balancer, pistons... you get the point

What is a realistic goal out of the 360s? I've seen on YouTube that some push 600hp/tq but those are with trickflow heads

Also, thanks for the optimistic view of my budget, it really sets a different light and maybe doesn't have me thinking everything is crazy prices

 

[Jerry Hall]

A word of appreciation for Mopar engineering. 500 hp is not going to break a 23 spline trans or a 8 3/4 rear end. I beat the hell out of my original 67 Satellite 383 4-speed car. I blew clutches twisted driveshafts, spread yokes in the rear end, with a highly modified 383. With each breakage I upgraded to better parts. Better aftermarket clutch, yoke changed from small to large, custom driveshaft, etc. The only transmission issue in that time was a broken 1-2 shift fork. This was an every day driver, street race car and saw the drag strip most every weekend. My best time slip was a 10.92. So it was never really dyno'd, I think it took 500 hp to get there. Have fun with your build and just fix what breaks.

 

[Curiousyellow71]

That's the plan, try to scrounge around used parts, I was planning on just getting new pistons but hell if I find good condition good pistons I'll use them.

I'm keeping the block safe from elements, going to wrap it and do my best to protect it

Now for the stroker, can I just kind of get a 360 block cleaned, get a 426 kit and girdle from hughes then swap LITERALLY EVERYTHING ELSE OVER if its all in good condition. I mean everything besides the 1 time use hardware
Heads, intake, carb, cam, pushrods, valvetrain, headers, harmonic balancer, pistons... you get the point

What is a realistic goal out of the 360s? I've seen on YouTube that some push 600hp/tq but those are with trickflow heads

Also, thanks for the optimistic view of my budget, it really sets a different light and maybe doesn't have me thinking everything is crazy prices

The pan is different from a 340 and a 360, I think. I can't speak for a 426 kit. We have not done a small block that big. Hp goals, will depend on your combination obviously. There are more small block builds on FABBO. Go searching over there.
But, everything else should be the same. I was thinking the motor mounts are a bit different but similiar. Been a while, I can't say for sure. We do more big blocks.

 

[340runner]

The pan is different from a 340 and a 360, I think. I can't speak for a 426 kit. We have not done a small block that big. Hp goals, will depend on your combination obviously. There are more small block builds on FABBO. Go searching over there.
But, everything else should be the same. I was thinking the motor mounts are a bit different but similiar. Been a while, I can't say for sure. We do more big blocks.

Well, do you have experience on 408 strokers? What do you think of them on torquiness as opposed to a big block 440 built as I was saying

 

[340runner]

A word of appreciation for Mopar engineering. 500 hp is not going to break a 23 spline trans or a 8 3/4 rear end. I beat the hell out of my original 67 Satellite 383 4-speed car. I blew clutches twisted driveshafts, spread yokes in the rear end, with a highly modified 383. With each breakage I upgraded to better parts. Better aftermarket clutch, yoke changed from small to large, custom driveshaft, etc. The only transmission issue in that time was a broken 1-2 shift fork. This was an every day driver, street race car and saw the drag strip most every weekend. My best time slip was a 10.92. So it was never really dyno'd, I think it took 500 hp to get there. Have fun with your build and just fix what breaks.

So sounds like around my build goals I should be somewhat good, just don't clutch dump at 6k rpm making peak torque onto some slicks that dead hook and expect it to be peachy afterwards

 

[33 IMP]

The mounts are not the same. The rubber cushions might be but the mounts that bolt to the block are different between a small block and big block. Mounts are the least of your worries. For what you have I would be looking at a stroker small block.

If the op has room in the budget.... that's the way I'd go in his spot.