440 red line?

[zyzzyx]

Red Line?

The only thing i know from experience with the 440 motor is it has three weaknesses. 1: Rods should be replaced with forged H-Beams. 2: Oil system should be replaced with a Molodon single pick-up unit and the supply passage in the block needs to be drilled out yo match the port. 3: Heads should be replaced with something that flows as much air as possible! Yes, the cam & springs play a big part in getting to the higher RPM range, but if this engine is built right it will go to 7200 RPM and make power all the way there! In 1963 they came up with the Max Wedge Stage 3 heads that looked like a sewer. The car, with a push-button Auto went 11.40's stock. Heads are the key!

 

[Garys1969RR]

Looks like the valve train is usually the limiting factor on RPM. I Used to run a 413 with 5.13 gears in a 65 Belvedere. Went thru the lights at 108 MPH, about 7000 RPM. Racer Brown STX-62 cam, With mushroom lifters. I thought that 413 was gonna blow up at first, as it was wound really tight! But it ran low 12s time after time and no probs. Had about 13 to 1 C/R. Well designed motors. Also used a Milodon dual feed oil pump.

 

[biomedtechguy]

I guess my 440 doesn't play by the rules. I'm running the .455" MoPar cam with iron heads, a factory iron intake and 2" 5209's with 3" noisemasters all the way out the back. It's a mild build but seems to go right to 6000 RPM. I'm running 4.30's right now and I can tell it pretty much goes flat through the lights at 6200 RPM, so I think I have a tad too much gear. 3.91 or 4.10 should be a better match.

I now have a 6 BBL and it will spin the street tires to 6000 RPM in first like it was in neutral. The increase in power is amazing.

I am going down the 1/4 mile Sunday for the first time (in this car). It's a 70 V code Roadrunner with a 71 440 stock short block stock 76-78 heads. Comp Cams springs, locks, retainers, and lifters-flat tappet hydraulic. Aluminum 6 bbl intake. Tti 7/8th inch primaries, Chrysler electronic ignition with orange box, and whatever purple stripe cam came in the car. Point is that I have been doing 1st gear (4 speed) WOT launches on the street and I know by sound that I have been spinning it up about the same as I did yesterday, after installing a tach. Looks like I have been turning about 6100 RPMs. Still pulling!! So my point is I am inclined to shift out around 57/58 and not go over 6k as a "rule". Advice??

 

[RT K_line]

Back in the day I was running a 70 6 pack engine with the cast 6 pack intake and mild cam dynamics hydraulic 294/304 501/526 lift and it spun to 6500 constantly and pulled to 6800 if needed in 1st gear. It didn't get beat out of the hole with the 410s. Stock heads, short block and valve train. So in short the 440 is a stout engine. I even had a different combo with cast crank and tunnel ram that went to 7000 a few times all be it by accident but it lived with no ill effects.

 

[Dennis H]

Chassis Dyno says my 440 stops pulling at 4850.

 

[slepr1]

With my combo, 509 cam, M1 intake ect, the chassis dyno says my 440 stops pulling at 5400. I think the chassis dyno is the only way to really know your cars rpm potential.

 

[biomedtechguy]

Bob K (Mr 6pack) shifts out at 6k. He is running a stock class 69 1/2 A12 Super Bee. I am going to make my 1st run using 6k as the rev limit benchmark. Next run I will try shifting a little lower (5500) and see how that affects my 1/4 mile time. Maybe I can find a chassis dyno sometime soon and get some hard numbers. Thanks for the replies.

 

[440+6]

I have a Mr six pack cam in my 440 and it stops pulling around 5400, have fbo ignition box with rev limiter set to 5800.

 

[biomedtechguy]

I have a Mr six pack cam in my 440 and it stops pulling around 5400, have fbo ignition box with rev limiter set to 5800.

Thanks. So my "guestimate" 2nd run shift out at 5500 may be pretty close. After Sunday, all other factors being as close as possible to the same, I may have a better idea (vs my butt-dyno) where the best performance is. Wheelspin on the street has been pretty consistent, 1st gear only while moving forward nicely. Hopefully whatever traction I get off the line and in 1st will be consistent on my 1st and 2nd run so I can tell which RPM shift point nets better times/MPH.

 

[Cranky]

Well, if you don't have access to a chassis dyno, it's best to start lower in the rpm range and then work up. Example, try shifting at 5000 and see what the car runs. Might do a couple of runs or so just to see if it backs up the first then try say 5300 and it if improves, go for 5600. It may improve and it may not or it might even slow down. Getting traction is important here so that you can find what your best shift points are. The car can sometimes benefit from shifting at a different rpm in each gear so it doesn't hurt to try that too but I'd do my base runs doing everything the same first before trying more complicated techniques. Once you find what the engine likes, then you can start tuning the chassis and trying timing changes and curves. When I first got my 66 Belvedere /6 car (yeah, I'll race damn near anything!), it ran mid 22's and it wasn't long before it got down to mid 19's just doing simple stuff to the whole car. It doesn't matter how fast or slow a car is, there's always something you can do to it to improve it's RT and ET.

 

[Canyon707]

my build 550 hp runs to 6100

 

[Cranky]

My old 10.60 car shifted at 6900 and ran the traps at 7300 and I could feel it still pulling. Ran it out the back door one time just to see it would keep on pulling and got skert when I saw the tach going past 7500 but it was still pulling just as hard! A high 9 second car shifted at 7000 and crossed at 7000. It was a 440 block with an offset ground 440 crank producing 470 cubes. The 10.60 car had 4.88's and probably would have benefited from 4.56's. The 9 second car had 4.56's but probably could have done just as well or better with 4.30's.

 

[biomedtechguy]

I appreciate the suggestions. The reason why I am starting at 6k as a "limit" is because that is what I have been pulling to (by ear/feel) before I installed the tach. After I put the tach in, I did a 1st gear street launch and as closely as possible matched the sound and feel to what I have been doing and the tach said 6100, so my first run will be consistent with what I am used to, then based on a lot of posts indicating power roll-offs at lower RPMs with similar or even more modified motors than mine, I will shift out at lower RPMs and see how that affects my times and trap speed. Thanks to all for the replies.

 

[biomedtechguy]

Well, nothing broke, but my biggest consistent problem at the track today was blowing the tires off. BF Goodrich T/As, grabbed better on most streets than the track today. Track was sticky-I walked it, no water, I would spin my tires once or twice before I would stage (no line lock-yet...). My best run was a .0024 loss against my buddy's Furious Fuschia SRT8 Challenger, my car went 13.99 at 102. Gotta find some traction.

 

[Kern Dog]

This is an interesting thread, mild 440's should go past 5k? My 493 even before the 3" flowbastards(lol added to dictionary) would make it to 6k easy and to be honest seems to want to go to 8 if I let it. Still haven't been able to get enough courage on the street to see what the actual top end is after 120 and that stop light coming up fast with drums all the way around you kind of think well maybe this is a good time to let off lol :laughing1:

Same here. I have the longer 4.150 stroke, .400 longer than a stock 440 and mine pulls so hard, I often short-shift it because the RPMs are climbing so fast. I've read many places that without extensive porting and Max wedge size ports, most stroker big blocks are at peak HP in the 5800-6000 range.

 

[reeltime]

Spinning your tires with a 727 in first gear can be very dangerous. The over running clutch ( sprag ) can explode coming up through the floor and going where ever it wants. Many serious injuries have taken place. I would not do this if you like being healthy.The Sprag that Mopar presses into the aluminum case pulled out and can go anywhere ?On HP rebuilds most tranny shops use bolt in beefier units in there which are better but still should not be trusted. Sorry for going off topic.

 

[biomedtechguy]

Spinning your tires with a 727 in first gear can be very dangerous. The over running clutch ( sprag ) can explode coming up through the floor and going where ever it wants. Many serious injuries have taken place. I would not do this if you like being healthy.The Sprag that Mopar presses into the aluminum case pulled out and can go anywhere ?On HP rebuilds most tranny shops use bolt in beefier units in there which are better but still should not be trusted. Sorry for going off topic.

Good advice. I have an A833. Back in 78/79, I used to toast the 1 Delta 60 on my open rear end of my 71 Charger R/T with a 727. Very glad that I didn't have transchrapnel!

 

[biomedtechguy]

I just replaced my factory Rally 15s with Classic Industries aluminum Rally wheels. 8s and 9s. I am very happy to say that Toyo Proxes TQ drag radials 315/35/17s fit between the fender and leaf springs. Next track day is November 13 and I hope to have much better traction than last year. I'm thinking that maybe the hydraulic Purple stripe cam in mine may be the old school 292°. I don't remember the lift on that cam, but it was the step up from the 284° If I can actually get traction in 1st, I will try different RPM shift points this time. It's kinda hard to shift at lower RPMs when the motor seems to be pulling so hard. Also, I found an eddy mustang chassis dyno not too far or too costly close (40 miles). Maybe I can get some dyno time before the track.

 

[biomedtechguy]

New shoes closest to camera, old rear tire further from camera.

 

[biomedtechguy]

Pretty sweet looking. 225/45/17s up front. Gotta drive it a bit and see where the front end height settles. 4 speed a833 still needs to be installed too. Should have that in the car in a couple of days.