440 Starter Information

[BMosely]

I don’t really have a question here but just posting for the group info. When building my sons car a few years ago the one thing I really did not put a bunch of research into was the starter, because I did not think I needed too. I was getting a bunch of parts from 440 Source and just went with the mini starter that they carry. It is a fine starter for $100 but I wish I had dug in a little deeper. 18,000 miles in and it started grinding and started to fail. Now I have dug in and did not realize there are various options rated by starting torque. The 440 Source is rated at 180 ft/lb. I chased down the Powermaster line and settled on the 200 ft/lb model. #9533, $230. Now that it is in it is an incredible difference. Almost scary how fast it starts now. An added bonus is the power and ignition lugs are reversed so it gains plenty of room off the block on the large power cable.

Running long tube headers and stock heads means this is at least a 5 hour effort to replace the starter so choose wisely. I told my now 19 yr old son that if it goes again I get to supervise.

 

[pnora]

I have the 440 source on my 528 hemi and it is great. Do not count on the power master as being the holy grail of starters.

 

[WileE]

What headers do you have ? The job should be done in an hour.

 

[BMosely]

TTI headers. They completely basket the starter in. No way to R&R without removing the header at the block and collector. That means you get to clean the exhaust gasket residue at the block and clean all 6 bolts holes that are water jacket wet.

 

[rickseeman]

There are mini starters with all kinds of different power outputs. I had a Mopar mini starter on a 12.5 cr 572 Hemi. It cranked it fine. But I wanted to put a new starter on it and bought a Meziere. It honestly cranked it as if the plugs were out.

 

[zyzzyx]

The Denso starters have permanent magnets in them so they have more cranking power than the old stockers
that rely on field coils. Smaller and lighter too!

 

[ckessel]

I have the 9523 unit which is clockable. I needed that one due to my bit of a hybrid application. Lucky for me the engine/trans is on a stand so it was way easier to find the best of the 4 positions available. I did need to use the plastic mallet on one tube to increase the clearance at the front. Since it's in a nest like yours, I was thinking about making a short extension harness to the starter for easier hookup when its in the car. Headers will get thermal coated which will help the heat issue some. May do an aluminum shield too.

 

[440 PHIXX]

I forget which one I put in but… the 383 sounds like it’s sneezing when I start it.

 

[moparedtn]

There are tons of threads on this forum about starters and headers. Utilizing the Search box at the upper right
of any page will yield literally dozens of them, in fact.

That said, I'm on year 14 of using the usual Dodge 318-360 Magnum V8 Denso factory starter on Fred's 440.
The headers are Hedman big tube pain in the arses; when I swapped engines some years ago, I had a talk with
the drivers' side one with an 8 pound sledge to alleviate a slight interference issue with one tube.

The Denso is cheap and can be had from any big box parts store rebuilt with a lifetime warranty; mine actually
is an original from a junkyard and to this day has zero issues with all the abuse I've dished out with all those
cold starts, where the carb has to re-prime itself after sitting a while.
No heat sink hot start issues to report either - these factory starters are tough!
They're about half the size and 1/3 the weight of the original gear reduction type starters and are rated at 2.5hp
(1.8hp on the original stock BB starter).

You don't need a fancy, mail order starter for these cars. Hell, get a lifetime warranty Dakota starter for less than
half the price and never pay for a starter again.

 

[Black_Sheep]

I picked up a reman factory unit from a local rebuilder, it turns my 440 over like the plugs are out…

 

[ckessel]

I tried one of the factory mini starters on mine just to see if it would clear plus it would save me some dough. Nope. Only 2 units listed to clear my header/engine combo. 9523 Powermaster and the one from RobMc.

 

[Badvert65]

I was thinking about making a short extension harness to the starter for easier hookup when its in the car.

There is an extension available for the 'reversed post' starters. It is similar to the one available for the factory mini starter. I sell these as well as the ones for the factory starters.
Might save you some time.
Jus sayin..

 

[moparedtn]

I tried one of the factory mini starters on mine just to see if it would clear plus it would save me some dough. Nope. Only 2 units listed to clear my header/engine combo. 9523 Powermaster and the one from RobMc.

Listed? Heck, where is the Dakota starter "listed" for use on anything besides the 80s-90s 318/360, for that matter?
What engine and headers are yours that it won't work on, just so future folks know?

 

[ckessel]

For the extension, it was going to be cable/wire unit routed where it's easier to access when its all in the car and header is on. Otherwise it will be a challenge to do without girly hands.
My engine is an all aluminum Indy unit. The block is a little bit wider than a normal oe iron one. It's the sister engine to the one Johnny Hunkins put in his "Violent Valient" from Popular Hot Rodding[ rip] and Mopar Muscle[ rip]. His was carb'd, mine is efi. TTI made a specific header for that engine to fit in the cars. My package is further hybridized because I'm using a 70 k-frame in a 65 car and using Schumacher adaptor mounts for Hemi mount to regular k-frame. One of the reasons I ordered the headers uncoated. I knew they would need some massaging here and there. I didn't want to ruin the thermal coating. I'm done working them over finally so in the future, I'll get them coated. On my 67 wagon w/440 and Hedman units, the Dakota/Ram/B Van starter works fine.

 

[65CopCar]

That 200 lb-ft is BS. What rpm is that at? 1 rpm? My Chinese starter turns over my 15:1 motor just fine. The test report shows 10.5 lb-ft at max power which is at 1000 rpm (pinion speed, 4440 motor rpm). Max torque of 13.7 lb-ft at 693 pinion rpm.

Absolutely a marketing ploy by Powermaster. Sound like its the torque at the crank?

The 9533 is a 1.4 kw (1.8 hp) motor just like my Chinese. It will not magically have more torque unless it spins slower. Remember these are series DC motors so more torque and slower speed as the motor amps go up and hp = torque x speed / 5252. Can't violate that rule.