451 low deck budget build

[451Mopar]

If the budget is tight, just do the 451" 3.75" stroke crank. If you need the rods, the 440 source rods are a decent deal as you will have over $100+ into rod bolts and re-sizing stock rods. Then use the KB Hypereutectic pistons.
If your budget allows, the stroker kits are a good deal, Stronger crank, rods, and pistons, plus includes the performance rings and bearings.

 

[wyrmrider]

I do not see where most of the stroker kits have a stronger crank, many are cast, others offshore "forged" out of what?
x2 on the 440 source rods
one reason that I have a drawer full of LY rods is that no one wants to pay to have them rebuilt
I (I means my high speed random access "associate") side grind and mag every one B4 working on them
Mag all the cranks I've never found a cracked non race BBM crank
440 source - how about some +100 Hemi length rods
and BTW the Hemi is not the one to copy- the Race rods- the 4130 factory rods- things of beauty
so why not forge these out of 4130 instead of 5000 series?
BTW I'd rather have a SPS (Direct Connection) or low end ARP 3/8 bolt than an unknown 7/16- whose bolts does 440 source use?
would not hurt to do a stretch (torque) to yield test all it would cost is a spare capscrew.

 

[67MPRFAN]

At the end of the day, you have to look how much you're saving over buying a complete, balanced, stroker rotating assembly which has no guesswork involved. Is it really worth using a 40-year old crankshaft over new production for the cost in a performance build?

Agreed 100% just wanted to use something that I have laying around taking up space

 

[Garys1969RR]

If using stock LY rods with a stock 440 crank, you will be fine. Just use .010 under bearings to match the crank, and check the side clearance. Only the main journals need to be machined down to 400 main bearing size. This is the simplest and cheapest way to do it. You can find stock 440 rods here and other places for a reasonable price. Have any used rod re conditioned. It's only about $3 to $5 a rod. Use new hi strength rod bolts.

 

[BSB67]

........ Have any used rod re conditioned. It's only about $3 to $5 a rod. Use new hi strength rod bolts.

Really. Please pass along the shop name and number.

 

[wyrmrider]

not $5 the way I do it side grind and mag costs more than that
as I may have posted elsewhere watch out for the low cost shops angle cutting the caps
i"ll pontificate
if you look at a big end and the parting line and say your cut the cap so you can get a new nice round big end on your manderal hone
note that the big end long ways shortens up by the amount of the cut
what about crosswise-it does not shorten up at all
so you end up with bigger across than up and down
that's the way it is there is no load there- consider the extra clearance to be oiling pockets or some such
now the quick and dirty shops angle cut the cap so when they torque it down the big ends "pull in" on the sides and they can get nice round big ends- see- better -- right?
except it puts one hell of as strain on the rod bolts which are designed to be mostly tension load
always check you caps on a flat plate or glass = or just drop them lightly on the rod and see if there is any daylight on the inside
you want to show someone or gather evidence (as you are not going to pay for these ruined rods) use some old fashioned "carbon paper" (remember typewriters?
and make an impression or an ink transfer
now demand some new rods
ps doing rods is an art trying to do them too fast and you can really f them up requiring a much bigger cut to "fix" and making them really shorter

 

[451Mopar]

My first 451 stroker used the cut-down 440 crank, reconditioned LY rods, and Ross pistons, and I never had an issue with the rotating system.
Just saying that by the time you pay for the new rod bolts, labor to inspect the rods, change out the bolts, hone the big end to size you will likely have spent $150+ on the stock rods. I don't know any shops that recondition rods for less than $10/each and they charge extra to R&R the bolts.

 

[dvw]

Chevy standard rod width is .992", Mopar 1.017". Runing the .992" on the wide journal doesn't hurt a thing. Molnar makes very nice reasonably priced rods if your budget allows.
Doug

 

[wyrmrider]

yes your oil sling is determined by bearing clearance, oil wt etc not by side clearance unless you are running big bearing clearances

 

[m79ded]

My first 451 stroker used the cut-down 440 crank, reconditioned LY rods, and Ross pistons, and I never had an issue with the rotating system.
Just saying that by the time you pay for the new rod bolts, labor to inspect the rods, change out the bolts, hone the big end to size you will likely have spent $150+ on the stock rods. I don't know any shops that recondition rods for less than $10/each and they charge extra to R&R the bolts.

That's a great way to do it. The key with this is the lightweight Ross Pistons. Much less bob weight revs real quick and easy to balance. I've seen people cheap out and get a deal on cheap heavy pistons only to pay much more in mallory metal to balance it. Buy good pistons like 451 and I bought.

 

[IQ52]

It doesn't need to be terribly complicated. I decided I wanted a 451 that would make some significant horsepower and I had a 400 block and a factory 440 forged crank. I had the counter weights on the crank cut down .120" in radius, the mains turned down to 400 size and the rods cut to .010" under. I added Scat 2-440-6760-2374-990 H-beam rods, Ross 99495 pistons and had the assembly balanced. There was some very minor grinding on the block to clear one counterweight. When the engine went over 620 HP and I wanted more, all I did was add ARP main studs. We pushed that bottom end into the 780+ HP range on pump gas. The engine is backed down now to 580 HP and running in the shop 1/2 ton.

 

[IQ52]

Has anyone used the 440 source Factory replacement rods #200-1132 $250/set with 7/16" cap screws? That may be an option for this type of 451 build.
http://store.440source.com/Factory-Replacement-Rods/products/139/

I've had those babies in my hot little hands and will not run them, very low quality rod. Spend the bucks and get a H-beam.

 

[67MPRFAN]

It doesn't need to be terribly complicated. I decided I wanted a 451 that would make some significant horsepower and I had a 400 block and a factory 440 forged crank. I had the counter weights on the crank cut down .120" in radius, the mains turned down to 400 size and the rods cut to .010" under. I added Scat 2-440-6760-2374-990 H-beam rods, Ross 99495 pistons and had the assembly balanced. There was some very minor grinding on the block to clear one counterweight. When the engine went over 620 HP and I wanted more, all I did was add ARP main studs. We pushed that bottom end into the 780+ HP range on pump gas. The engine is backed down now to 580 HP and running in the shop 1/2 ton.

My only issue would be the rod journals size the crank that I have has been sitting for a while and has been cut 10/10 so I kinda looking for options as far as rod journals choices to be able to build a 451

 

[IQ52]

Well then, I would buy rod bearings that are .010" undersize and cut the crank mains to 400 standard.

 

[m79ded]

It doesn't need to be terribly complicated. I decided I wanted a 451 that would make some significant horsepower and I had a 400 block and a factory 440 forged crank. I had the counter weights on the crank cut down .120" in radius, the mains turned down to 400 size and the rods cut to .010" under. I added Scat 2-440-6760-2374-990 H-beam rods, Ross 99495 pistons and had the assembly balanced. There was some very minor grinding on the block to clear one counterweight. When the engine went over 620 HP and I wanted more, all I did was add ARP main studs. We pushed that bottom end into the 780+ HP range on pump gas. The engine is backed down now to 580 HP and running in the shop 1/2 ton.

That's exactly what I did the same pistons rods and crank and same results got 611hp and 625tq very easily and balancing was simple. IQ explained it right on. This advice from a very knowledgeable and great engine builder like IQ is invaluable. Great job, Fantastic setup

 

[wyrmrider]

most likely your crank will polish up
ask a good crankgrinder B 4 proceeding
If he says its rusted so bad it needs grinding have a line on your bearings ahead of time, put them in the block and mike them and give dimensions to grinder
a few oil pits are not going to hurt anything

 

[Garys1969RR]

My only issue would be the rod journals size the crank that I have has been sitting for a while and has been cut 10/10 so I kinda looking for options as far as rod journals choices to be able to build a 451

Rod journal size is not an issue on your crank because, as has been stated, you use will .010 undersize bearings. They will fit the stock rods just fine. Just order .010 undersize rod bearings. The main bearings need to be .010 undersize for a 400 block.

 

[67MPRFAN]

Rod journal size is not an issue on your crank because, as has been stated, you use will .010 undersize bearings. They will fit the stock rods just fine. Just order .010 undersize rod bearings. The main bearings need to be .010 undersize for a 400 block.

But if they can't polish up the rod journals that has already been cut 10/10 I would either need a 20 under bearing or different choices for the next size rods that I can use off the shelf Pistons

 

[wyrmrider]

so get your crank checked already
you can use std 400 mains with a cut down 440 crank
as I said I'd mike the bearings in the rods and mic the crank and see what the clearance is
a little extra clearance from a polish will not hurt anything

 

[IQ52]

So the world won't come to an end if you have to dress your crank up. Rod bearings are available down to .050" under size for the 440 rod. And Molnar makes a 6.760 rod for a 2.200" Chevy journal with a big end width of 1.017" and they still fit the .990 pin 99495 Ross pistons.