493 street/strip intake help

[PRHeads]

I thought there were some pulls with the 850 on the 440-2.

 

[cdr]

Just asking, my 400-2 low deck came in between standard & max, the 440-2 is MAX as delivered ?

 

[Bluefish]

Thank you for the kind words. Ron

Ron, curious to know if the 337 is available for low deck or just tall?

 

[33 IMP]

337 is not available new anywhere, as far as i know. There's lots of people that want one, now that they can't be found. There were two versions, neither for a low deck. 337 fit standard height ports, and a different part number, also with the cast in valley cover, was for stage 6 raised ports on a 440. I dont remember the part number for that manifold, but unless you have stage sixes, its junk, it fits nothing else. It's wider and taller , and scrap.
If you find one at a swap meet, or ebey or racing junk , make sure of the part number, i have seen the other one passed off as a 337.

 

[33 IMP]

Ron, curious to know if the 337 is available for low deck or just tall?

Sorry, did this badly, see post 44.

 

[Bluefish]

337 is not available new anywhere, as far as i know. There's lots of people that want one, now that they can't be found. There were two versions, neither for a low deck. 337 fit standard height ports, and a different part number, also with the cast in valley cover, was for stage 6 raised ports on a 440. I dont remember the part number for that manifold, but unless you have stage sixes, its junk, it fits nothing else. It's wider and taller , and scrap.
If you find one at a swap meet, or ebey or racing junk , make sure of the part number, i have seen the other one passed off as a 337.

Thank you for that.

 

[Firefighter3931]

I thought there were some pulls with the 850 on the 440-2.

I can't remember if that test was done.....and I don't have any sheets for that combination. I only have 6 or 7 dyno sheets. The testing was done for 2 days and I missed day 2.....maybe that's when you made that pull ? It would be nice to see the difference though !


Ron

 

[PRHeads]

My recollection is that we tested the 440-2D, then the -2, then the 337.
Once the 337 was installed it didn’t get taken off.
That’s how remember it anyway.

But there’s been a whole bunch of motors and runs made since then..... so I wouldn’t count on my memory as being 100% accurate.

Just asking, my 400-2 low deck came in between standard & max, the 440-2 is MAX as delivered ?

The 440-2 usually requires a little less work to get it out to the size of an Indy MW gasket than the 400-2 does.
The 337 is a little smaller at the port exit than the 400-2.

The 440-2 we used on Ron’s 572 was one of mine that had the port exits opened up to the gasket, along with some minor plenum clean up.

On a more race oriented 540, the same 440-2, adapter, and 1150 carb made over 800hp.

I also ran the 337 with the adapter and 1150 on the 540, but only pulled it to 6500........it made a best of 732hp on that pull.

I think the 337 is a nice piece up to about 725-750hp.
Much above that and it’s going to require some porting, and even then will likely still come up short to a single plane Indy or Ede SV.

Had we not had some oil system issues on the dyno with the 572, I def would have been pulling the motor higher.

 

[cdr]

My recollection is that we tested the 440-2D, then the -2, then the 337.
Once the 337 was installed it didn’t get taken off.
That’s how remember it anyway.

But there’s been a whole bunch of motors and runs made since then..... so I wouldn’t count on my memory as being 100% accurate.



The 440-2 usually requires a little less work to get it out to the size of an Indy MW gasket than the 400-2 does.
The 337 is a little smaller at the port exit than the 400-2.

The 440-2 we used on Ron’s 572 was one of mine that had the port exits opened up to the gasket, along with some minor plenum clean up.

On a more race oriented 540, the same 440-2, adapter, and 1150 carb made over 800hp.

I also ran the 337 with the adapter and 1150 on the 540, but only pulled it to 6500........it made a best of 732hp on that pull.

I think the 337 is a nice piece up to about 725-750hp.
Much above that and it’s going to require some porting, and even then will likely still come up short to a single plane Indy or Ede SV.

Had we not had some oil system issues on the dyno with the 572, I def would have been pulling the motor higher.

Thanks Dwayne , my 400-2 took alot to get it to MW & the core shift was awful.

 

[Firefighter3931]

Hey guys, here is some additional dyno data to chew on with respect to manifold testing. Different combo than mine ; less cubes, more compression and bigger cam. It's a race gas 500 ci build that is street driven.

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,68053.0.html

Ron

 

[Dan64]

^^^ Thanks for that.

 

[hunt2elk]

On my other car (496 RB) I use a Holley Street Dominator with 850 DP Carb. This car has Air Grabber and everything fits under stock hood. I don't know if its a 10 second car but its a blast to drive. Good luck on your build.
Frank

Curious how you got this setup to fit under an air grabber hood? Cut the throat down on the original air cleaner base, or use a fiberglass aftermarket style?

 

[PRHeads]

I was digging for some other sheets and came across these.......
This is on Firefighters 572.
This is as apples to apples as it gets.
440-2 vs 440-2D vs 337(in that order), all tested back to back, all using the same carb, same 1/2” open spacer, and same jetting.
Carb is a recalibrated Mighty Demon 850DP downleg.

 

[Frankb]

Curious how you got this setup to fit under an air grabber hood? Cut the throat down on the original air cleaner base, or use a fiberglass aftermarket style?

I used an aftermarket fiberglass base. Got it from a gentleman in Texas. I had to cut down the base to make it fit but it fits and looks stock.
Frank

 

[hunt2elk]

I used an aftermarket fiberglass base. Got it from a gentleman in Texas. I had to cut down the base to make it fit but it fits and looks stock.
Frank

How did you go about making and securing this bracket? I don't think it comes in the fiberglass ones?

 

[Frankb]

How did you go about making and securing this bracket? I don't think it comes in the fiberglass ones?

View attachment 870931

The base on the car now dose not have this bracket. When I talked to the guy who made this for me , Steve Mathews from Houston, Tx. he made me another one with a bracket. Because the first one I use works ok for me I never installed the newer one. Give me a day or two and I will get some pics on both bases and how the base I use fits on the car. I came across Mr. Mathews on Moparts about 10 years ago or so.
Frank

 

[Dan64]

I was digging for some other sheets and came across these.......
This is on Firefighters 572.
This is as apples to apples as it gets.
440-2 vs 440-2D vs 337(in that order), all tested back to back, all using the same carb, same 1/2” open spacer, and same jetting.
Carb is a recalibrated Mighty Demon 850DP downleg.

View attachment 870818 View attachment 870819 View attachment 870820

Thanks for posting those dyno sheets , I tried to find a 337 but to no avail yet so I pulled the trigger on a set of Trick Flow 270's and went with a Hugh's Indy dual plane deep port matched to the 270's to fit under the hood and standard max wedge scoop. The dual plane isn't too crazy far off of the 337 ,down 14 hp and 5 lb-ft with a 1/2" open spacer , I can live with that in a street car. Not sure how much room for a spacer i'll have yet but do you think going with a 1" open spacer would close the gap between the two intakes?. Also i think i remember you stating that the divider wall was cut down 3/4" on the dual plane ,would there be any advantage / disadvantage to cutting it down any further with an open spacer?.

 

[PRHeads]

My recollection is that the 1” spacer was slightly better than the 1/2”...... on that motor.

As for the divider, I believe Russ(BS67) tested his with the divider cut down different amounts...... and on his combo, it was best with it all removed.
He can fill in the details and correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[BSB67]

My recollection is that the 1” spacer was slightly better than the 1/2”...... on that motor.

As for the divider, I believe Russ(BS67) tested his with the divider cut down different amounts...... and on his combo, it was best with it all removed.
He can fill in the details and correct me if I’m wrong.

Boy Dwayne, I wish I was that good. I started with a 3/4" open spacer and the motor picked up meaningful and reproducible power everywhere. I wanted to try several notch depths but I was trying too many things and was running out of time and money. I think I was on the dyno for 4 days.

So as I was sitting there ready to cut the divider, I had this internal discussion and decided on 1". So back on the dyno with the carb mounted flat to the manifold it reproduced the 3/4" spacer results nearly exactly within reasonable repeatability and accuracy.

When I put the motor in the car, and played around with air cleaners a hood clearance, I determined that I could run a 1/2" spacer too. And I never did any with and without track tests. I did make 5 different 1/2" spacers and track tested them, but again, between the car and my driving I really could not conclude based on the data which was better. I left the 1/2" open spacer on.

 

[Dan64]

Anyone have a Edelbrock Performer rpm that they can measure the stock cut down of the divider wall?.