512 cam advice

[68gtx]

ok guys and gals,

I bit the bullet , I ordered up a 512 kit for the gtx, and a set of stealths too.. I have never built a stroker before and am not sure what cam to pick, 727 auto for now, 3:55 gear maybe 3:91, 6 pack and intake, 440 source says it should be 10.25:1 comp. power brakes, would like a solid lifter cam, not a roller , will have comp adjustable rockers..i want something I think with a 112 lsa, and I want it to have a definite romp at idle? anyone have some experience they can share?i used a crower ultrabeast in my 460 in my mustang and really like how it works and sounds , but they don't make they ultrabeast for a 440 in mech lifters only hydraulic.. not sure about the mp 284/284 mech cam it has a 112 lsa, would it be too much?

thanks in advance

 

[cryplydog]

68, do your self a favor and call comp cams or another REPUTABLE cam supplier. tell them exactly what you have with what your going to do with the car. good luck,it should run like a raped ape.

 

[robinsonwr]

I would go hydraulic roller for the street. Definitely call Comp Cams for some help selecting the right stick. Real good article in Mopar Muscle this month on a 465 cube 440 that made 541hp with 112lsa hydraulic roller.

 

[Propwash]

You're gonna love that stump pulling torque your 512's gonna be pumping out! Have a 512 myself..Love it! Anyways, i'm running a Comp Cams solid flat tappet in my stroker (Xtreme Energy CCA-23-232-4). Cam is 244/252 Duration, .520/.540 lift, Lobe Sep. 110. Ported Eddy heads, Port matched Indy DP Intake, Adj. Roller Rockers, Custom cut Comp Cams 3/8" Moly pushrods, Quick Fuel Q950 carb, Dougs 2" Headers, 3" TTI Exhaust. Tranny is a TCI SSF with a PCT 3500 stall converter with 3:91's in the rear.

1st off....running power brakes off the engines vacuum, not happening. Not enough vacuum. I run a relay driven CVT Electric Vacuum Pump w/integrated pressure switch. Works great. When it kicks on, you cannot hear it running with the vehicle is running. Also with the low vacuum I run a Mechanical Distributor and is from 4 Seconds Flat. Custom curved and phased by Don over there (good guy!)

The car idles just fine, absolutely no issues with its street manors, but still has a nice thumpity thump. Listening to the car you can definitely tell it's a solid lifter as well as a pretty healthy cam. Runs good on 91-93 octane pump gas (no pings) but really loves the blue Kool-Aid. Performance wise, Dyno'd 632 HP, 696 TQ. So get good at waving bye bye..hehehehe. Car launches good w/decent foot breaking and is a 4 wheeled slingshot when putting peddle to metal on the freeway. Real neck cracker. Engine likes the 2500-5500 range.

So there's a comparison for you, hope it helps. On my RR resto thread (Family Tradition) there is a couple YouTube vids you can listen to the engine at engine Dyno and another towards the end of the thread where you can listen to the car itself running with the Po-Tay-To Po-Tay-To Po-Tay-To thump coming out of the tail pipes. If you're looking to run your power brakes off your engine, by all means, don't use this cam. You won't have enough vacumm, even if attempting to use a canister. You're gonna need to dial down the LSA/Duration a bit to get in that ball park. You'll arguably lose some efficiency running a mechanical dist. vs Vacuum adavnce...Stuff to keep in mind. But, if you're looking for a rocket mounted to a skateboard..it's a great cam!

 

[IQ52]

Rump at idle and power brakes seldom go together without a vacuum pump. If you don't have the Stealths ported, the 512 cubic inches will suck them dry very early in the rpm range. Figure the rpm of peak horsepower around 5000 rpm. Should be a torquer.

 

[Supershafts]

You guys are giving up 100 plus hp using those heads and those cams aren't even helping you, you could be making even more and still street friendly.

Why in the world you would be against the performance the roller will give you is beyond me.

Seems to me you chipped your tooth on the shell casing trying to bite the bullet.

You aren't building a 440, so lose that train of thought or you're gonna have a poor running 512"
,

 

[68gtx]

opion

You guys are giving up 100 plus hp using those heads and those cams aren't even helping you, you could be making even more and still street friendly.

Why in the world you would be against the performance the roller will give you is beyond me.

Seems to me you chipped your tooth on the shell casing trying to bite the bullet.

You aren't building a 440, so lose that train of thought or you're gonna have a poor running 512"
,

like my original post said, i have never built a stroker before, anyone who has please give your opion on a cam, as far as chipping my teeth lol , never said i as against a roller, they are just alot more $ than a flat solid, which i have used and like, fell free to add here and let us know what cam you think would work wonders , as for the stealths , i wanted stock looking head and they are the only ones to fit the build,,, dont care which is better in that department, they have to look stockish. i will add hats off to the staff at 440soucre, i dealt with kim burns, super helpful , professional , and great do deal with, even a guy like me with lots of demands and questions, which more places were as good to deal with as these guys!!!!!

 

[cdr]

at least get the heads ported!!!! send them to IQ52,he can fix you right up.

 

[Propwash]

You guys are giving up 100 plus hp using those heads and those cams aren't even helping you, you could be making even more and still street friendly.

Why in the world you would be against the performance the roller will give you is beyond me.

Seems to me you chipped your tooth on the shell casing trying to bite the bullet.

You aren't building a 440, so lose that train of thought or you're gonna have a poor running 512"
,

Well I guess you can keep wondering, and at the same time keep your jackwagon comments to yourself. Get some manners while your at it as well. My supposed chipped tooth isn't as nearly as big as that chipped shoulder you're sporting chief. I could really care less of your preferences being you did not set budget and pay for the machine work or parts..did not decide where the max HP/TQ/RPM was going to sit, did not decide if the car was going to be street, strip or both. Did not decide if it was going to be a pump or race gas engine. Did not decide on gears, tranny and converter. It's about a happy medium between all engines dynamics to create a strong running motor that meets the end goals of the owner. Not a biggest/baddest-latest/greatest contest. There's absolutely nothing wrong with porting Stealth, Eddy or stock heads if they're going to get you the power/look/budget a guy is looking for. Same thing with a cam/lifters and everything else about the motor.

Here's my Dyno sheet....Without a doubt my cam is working quite fine. Thanks for your concern.

 

[Azure]

Burn!

 

[tallhair]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He owned you supershafts! LMFAO to take a note from the Budnicks

[video=youtube;JBi36DdpO14]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBi36DdpO14[/video]

Well I guess you can keep wondering, and at the same time keep your jackwagon comments to yourself. Get some manners while your at it as well. My supposed chipped tooth isn't as nearly as big as that chipped shoulder you're sporting chief. I could really care less of your preferences being you did not set budget and pay for the machine work or parts..did not decide where the max HP/TQ/RPM was going to sit, did not decide if the car was going to be street, strip or both. Did not decide if it was going to be a pump or race gas engine. Did not decide on gears, tranny and converter. It's about a happy medium between all engines dynamics to create a strong running motor that meets the end goals of the owner. Not a biggest/baddest-latest/greatest contest. There's absolutely nothing wrong with porting Stealth, Eddy or stock heads if they're going to get you the power/look/budget a guy is looking for. Same thing with a cam/lifters and everything else about the motor.

Here's my Dyno sheet....Without a doubt my cam is working quite fine. Thanks for your concern.

View attachment 156693

 

[Supershafts]

lol he owned what, 600hp...

He read attitude into not me, read fellas don't put your emotions into **** that ain't there... Using a metaphor gets you twisted to cry like that and then boast about 600hp, you made 600hp and gave up another 200 and saved what, how much money do you think you saved to lose 200....

Thats some mindset you got there to get you all stupid and no one was directing anything to you..

Now since you did open up the door for me propwash, 1. I never asked about your cam, 68gtx asked about a cam and got more advice to make even more streetable power than you are, and your cam is working horribly if that is a 512" motor, i hope it's like 400".
.
.

 

[Propwash]

lol he owned what, 600hp...

He read attitude into not me, read fellas don't put your emotions into **** that ain't there... Using a metaphor gets you twisted to cry like that and then boast about 600hp, you made 600hp and gave up another 200 and saved what, how much money do you think you saved to lose 200....

Thats some mindset you got there to get you all stupid and no one was directing anything to you..

Now since you did open up the door for me propwash, 1. I never asked about your cam, 68gtx asked about a cam and got more advice to make even more streetable power than you are, and your cam is working horribly if that is a 512" motor, i hope it's like 400".
.
.

You guys are giving up 100 plus hp using those heads and those cams aren't even helping you, you could be making even more and still street friendly......Seems to me you chipped your tooth on the shell casing trying to bite the bullet.

Yeah, I must have just read it wrong with you stating "you guys", "those heads" and "those cams". In the English language, a letter "s" at the end of a word typically depicts a plural (meaning more than one). Besides the original poster, I'm the only other one here stating my heads, cam and engine configuration. Not to mention "chipped your tooth on a shell casing trying to bite the bullet" when he hasn't even bought a cam yet. I don't know how else a guy is supposed to take that.

One thing is for certain, it's pretty sad to see an automotive based vendor come onto an automotive forum and not only publicly degrade his own integrity and respect but his business's as well, by posting child like antics and sporting such a demeaning attitude towards folks looking for help. I'm sure you've gained a lot of potential clients going this route.......way to go!

As far as your comment on "Hope it's a 400". I guess that's just a further justification of your own insecurity, bad attitude and miserable life you must live. I really hope you don't expect me to take that to heart, because honestly it's so foolish, it's actually funny. I don't think you did, but before making that comment did you ever stop to think that maybe I didn't build the engine to make 800..900..1000 HP? That quite possibly my budget, driving environment, rest of the cars configuration and end goal was to be more in the 500-600 range? Ooopps.....

A lot of folks know me pretty well around here. I do not spend my time on FBBO arguing or picking fights with folks, I try to be helpful when I can and enjoy learning from other folks experiences and knowledge. Harsh words, bad attitude.....Lot of time I just let things go, no big deal. But you need a reality check pal. Off your posts here, you've proven that you're just a bad person. And the way you have personally conducted yourself here can only be reflected in the same manner with your business ethics as well. With that being said, i'm done wasting my time with you and your negative attitude.

I do really hope the mods delete these posts...I do believe you should continue to be exposed for you who are for the sake of potential clients. The only regret is the spectacle that has been created dealing with you, and all the while the original poster is not getting the advice he's looking for. For that, I do apologize 68gtx. As good face Supershafts, I hope you and yours find some peace around the holidays.

 

[Wookie316]

I have a 512 based on a 400 block. I went with the mid range cam that 440 source recommends combined with the Performer RPM intake and head. It makes 513 HP and 608 torque. Great low end jam. Not a terribly rough idle though. The stroker eats lots of cam up. I regret not going roller as others have suggested. Also could of went with a bigger cam and still been fine on the street.
I too was thinking old school when I built this engine but so much has changed now. I'm still very happy, but know for the $ I spent I could of easily got 100 + HP going in a slightly different direction and still had a great street car.

 

[Supershafts]

Yeah, I must have just read it wrong with you stating "you guys", "those heads" and "those cams". In the English language, a letter "s" at the end of a word typically depicts a plural (meaning more than one). Besides the original poster, I'm the only other one here stating my heads, cam and engine configuration. Not to mention "chipped your tooth on a shell casing trying to bite the bullet" when he hasn't even bought a cam yet. I don't know how else a guy is supposed to take that.

One thing is for certain, it's pretty sad to see an automotive based vendor come onto an automotive forum and not only publicly degrade his own integrity and respect but his business's as well, by posting child like antics and sporting such a demeaning attitude towards folks looking for help. I'm sure you've gained a lot of potential clients going this route.......way to go!

As far as your comment on "Hope it's a 400". I guess that's just a further justification of your own insecurity, bad attitude and miserable life you must live. I really hope you don't expect me to take that to heart, because honestly it's so foolish, it's actually funny. I don't think you did, but before making that comment did you ever stop to think that maybe I didn't build the engine to make 800..900..1000 HP? That quite possibly my budget, driving environment, rest of the cars configuration and end goal was to be more in the 500-600 range? Ooopps.....

A lot of folks know me pretty well around here. I do not spend my time on FBBO arguing or picking fights with folks, I try to be helpful when I can and enjoy learning from other folks experiences and knowledge. Harsh words, bad attitude.....Lot of time I just let things go, no big deal. But you need a reality check pal. Off your posts here, you've proven that you're just a bad person. And the way you have personally conducted yourself here can only be reflected in the same manner with your business ethics as well. With that being said, i'm done wasting my time with you and your negative attitude.

I do really hope the mods delete these posts...I do believe you should continue to be exposed for you who are for the sake of potential clients. The only regret is the spectacle that has been created dealing with you, and all the while the original poster is not getting the advice he's looking for. For that, I do apologize 68gtx. As good face Supershafts, I hope you and yours find some peace around the holidays.

YOU guys, is this, we're talking and you say that you're gonna build this 512 and i say "you guys with this small cam in these DEEP breathing motors, who fills your head with these small cam ideas that only hurt you guys"...

He said he bit the bullet and the chipped tooth metaphor he got as a goof, just like it was intended, but you're a person with no sense of humor and reads into **** that isn't there

Potential clients. my customers get the right info and things that do not fail, and thats all im concerned with.

AND propwash make no mistake Im not here to sell YOU or ANYONE else anything, i come here and point out a problem, just LIKE this, 68gtx wants a 512 and he's gonna use a head that is going to be like making you run a foot race and use a mcdonalds straw to breath thru... I don't want to see YET another mopar enthusiast get steered down the 600hp lane when he can be in the 780, 850 hp lane and still drive the car on the street and be faster than the popular mopar crowd that is utterly embarrassing.

That by the way is some help you gave him, build a 512 and use a head that can't feed it. WHY waste the money to build a 512 that won't make the power all that much better than just building a 440 since you're so concerned with SAVING money.


No i didn't stop to THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU DID, You aren't 68GTX...

You have a problem with reading ATTITUDE that is not there in a post, and for that there is nothing i can do to help you.

Read what Wookie316 said, and then propwash YOU MIGHT understand why i said what i said.....

See propwash youre giving out info to people that is well off and 68GTX might be like Wookie316 and well guess who fuked him up HELPING him build a 512 the popular way.
.

Some way to make a judgement on someone you don't know at all and got all wrong, but hey use another single sentence to make a judgement call.

. You created the spectacle and now you want to get on the high horse and act like the night in shinning armor, WAD you are.

.

 

[440fish]

YOU guys, is this, we're talking and you say that you're gonna build this 512 and i say "you guys with this small cam in these DEEP breathing motors, who fills your head with these small cam ideas that only hurt you guys"...

He said he bit the bullet and the chipped tooth metaphor he got as a goof, just like it was intended, but you're a person with no sense of humor and reads into **** that isn't there

Potential clients. my customers get the right info and things that do not fail, and thats all im concerned with.

AND propwash make no mistake Im not here to sell YOU or ANYONE else anything, i come here and point out a problem, just LIKE this, 68gtx wants a 512 and he's gonna use a head that is going to be like making you run a foot race and use a mcdonalds straw to breath thru... I don't want to see YET another mopar enthusiast get steered down the 600hp lane when he can be in the 780, 850 hp lane and still drive the car on the street and be faster than the popular mopar crowd that is utterly embarrassing.

That by the way is some help you gave him, build a 512 and use a head that can't feed it. WHY waste the money to build a 512 that won't make the power all that much better than just building a 440 since you're so concerned with SAVING money.


No i didn't stop to THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU DID, You aren't 68GTX...

You have a problem with reading ATTITUDE that is not there in a post, and for that there is nothing i can do to help you.

Read what Wookie316 said, and then propwash YOU MIGHT understand why i said what i said.....

See propwash youre giving out info to people that is well off and 68GTX might be like Wookie316 and well guess who fuked him up HELPING him build a 512 the popular way.
.

Some way to make a judgement on someone you don't know at all and got all wrong, but hey use another single sentence to make a judgement call.

. You created the spectacle and now you want to get on the high horse and act like the night in shinning armor, WAD you are.

.

Can you share your thoughts on where you think the missing HP is? Id like to hear as im considering a build sometime in the next year and i am beginning to do some research.

You mention heads as a common mistake on these engine builds. What do you rec. as a good candidate for this application?


Propwash, that is some serious torque you're puttin out! Enjoy

 

[HT413]

...

 

[67 B-body]

I would suggest getting those heads worked on before taking the time to bolt them on.... I know it isn't cheap, but as IQ52 said, "you will suck them dry" otherwise.
As for camshaft selection,,,,,, If you like the RPM / HP / Vacuum levels, and all other things that a particular camshaft provides "REGARDLESS OF TYPE ie: roller, hyd, solid, etc",,,,, then buy it.
I don't have any specific recommendation on camshaft selection,,,, so all I can do is point you to the manufactures for assistance.
I do know this.... A "bigger" camshaft with mismatched heads, will not operate to the camshafts potential. Likewise, a head can be capable of higher performance levels than a camshaft can provide.
If I were to build an engine and have to choose which of the two previously mentioned scenarios I would have, it would be a head capable of out performing a camshaft.
Swept volume of the stroker is going to be a key player in the decision, AND the RPM range you would like to be operating in..... This is why your Heads should be thought of first.... You want those things to provide the correct amount of volume / velocity based on the two criteria mentioned, and in the correct amount of time.
BTW: My "OPINIONS" are just that,,,, OPINIONS...
After having the heads completed, I would have a camshaft ground to the specs of the heads, matching the flow characteristics, and my intended usage of the engine.
It's perfectly fine to leave some power on the table when your considering drive-ability, with camshaft selection. HP isn't the ONLY thing to be worried about! I too could get ALLOT more HP out of my engine, but I'm happy with the WAY it runs.... It fits me and my application.

I don't have a stake in the forum argument, but I can certainly say this: "I would also have taken offense to the comments made by SUPERSHAFT if I were PropWash". With that being said, I think the OP would much appreciate the "assistance by recommendations" offered by members of the forum, and not the ridicule placed on his own "Potential" choices, or the real world experiences of another members build that they are very proud of!
I'm done,,,,, KEEP IT CIVIL!

Peace!

 

[Wookie316]

Also I will mention that the way my bottom end is built, I could always swap out my heads intake and cam at a later date for stuff that would make the power it should. My buddy around the corner from me did a 496 and went with a better head and cam and makes more HP than me because of what he did.
With the top end stuff I used, I'd probably have made the same power in a 451 or 470. Like I say though I don't have any regrets other than the fact that I could have had much more HP for the same $ I paid to have this engine together.
I had been out of cars for many years and didn't realize the industry had changed so much. I was still stuck on smaller cams in bigger cars to make that low end torque. No days with these big stroker engines can take lots of cam and make big time power. I'm no expert but this is my experience. Good luck with the build.

 

[IQ52]

Regardless of how this 512 is cammed or the choice of cylinder heads installed, it will produce a great deal of torque and it is unlikely to be poor running........to a point. The point being, the RPM range. The cubic inches, heads and cam will dictate the rpm range of the engine (as will the intake manifold, carburetor, air cleaner and headers).

The heads seem to be the most obvious bottleneck at this time.

How do we come up with a for instance?

We put a 451 stroker with ported RPM heads on Comp Cam's dyno and it made 723 HP @ 7,000 rpm. We put a 500 Stroker on Comp's dyno with 906 heads (that flowed the same) and with essentially the same compression ratio and camshaft and it made 730 HP @ 6,300 rpm. Now both sets of heads were flowing in the 340+ cfm range using a massive single plane intake and a 1000+ cfm carburetor. So..........

Stock Stealth heads flow around 270 cfm @ .600". Those heads will put the RPM of peak horsepower of a 440 about 5,400 rpm and a 512 around 4,600 rpm. These are general estimates and will be effected by cam, intake and carburetor, but you get the idea.

Supershafts is right, though his delivery is sometimes difficult to accept. The 512 could easily use more head and a fairly large camshaft. But it doesn't need more head and cam if the owner is comfortable with an engine that is all done making power at 5,000 rpm.

Will it pull beyond 5,000 rpm? Sure, but the power is now dropping off. Look at Propwash's dyno sheet, 511lb-ft of torque @ 6,000 rpm, whereas the 451 was pulling 574 lb-ft @ 7,200 rpm. What is the desired rpm range of this engine? The excellent post (#18) by 67 B-body really needs to be considered.

Sure, you can put an Edelbrock Victor head or some of Indy's heads on the 512 and it will thrive with them. But you don't have to if you don't want to. Propwash has demonstrated what you can do with a mild combination of camshaft and RPM heads. The Stealths can do the same thing and have the same potential as the RPM heads. Eventually the 451 stroker spoken of above made 787 HP with the RPM heads, on pump gas.

If you already own Stealth or RPM heads and you will settle for some 750-780 HP, you can just have those heads ported to that level for less than buying new heads and having them ported (no aftermarket head can reach those power levels OOTB unless they come ported OOTB). If you are designing an engine for that power (750-780), I would start with some other head than the Stealth or RPM because other heads are capable of power levels beyond the Stealths and RPMs.

And bear in mind the detonation struggles others have had, the static compression must be balanced with the camshaft duration to allow the use of pump gas. Err on the side of lower compression, the 512 will have killer torque, no matter what.