516 heads-porting/unshrouding valves

[IQ52]

"Heads to work as well as practical". All I ever wanted.

Well I'm sorry but I'm still confused. Do you just want to port a set of iron heads or do you have some kind of goal in mind for the engine these heads would be used on? Did I miss a post on this or has it not been stated?

Oh, post #34. Still seems like the goal post is kinda vague.

 

[IQ52]

Thats what I enjoy hearing! 440 inch or bigger? Im working on 440 MW Chrysler project.

500 inches.

Here is a little write up on it in the Hot Rod Magazine archives. Scroll down to the LaRoy Engines entry. The first time the engine was bolted to Comp Cams dyno the water was never turned on to the engine and it was fried during the ring break in process. After emergency surgery the wounded engine never ran really good when back on the dyno the next day for another try.

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/mopp-1203-the-amsoil-mopar-muscle-engine-challenge/

 

[Mark Barnes]

Well I'm sorry but I'm still confused. Do you just want to port a set of iron heads or do you have some kind of goal in mind for the engine these heads would be used on? Did I miss a post on this or has it not been stated?

Oh, post #34. Still seems like the goal post is kinda vague.

Well, initially I wasn't sure what the 516's were capable of. Since I've read anything I can find and been provided some great info from other posters, my goals have changed. It seems that somewhere between 400-500HP is possible, and I am trying to lean towards the higher number. I understand that the greatest limitation typically is the thickness of my wallet, so that will likely be the limiting factor. Thank you all again for trying to smarten me up.

 

[Mark Barnes]

Went to Crower and gave them the parameters that I thought I could attain, which pretty much align with what Dodge Bros. expressed. Here's their recommendation-
https://www.crower.com/mopar-350-440-b-pro-street-solid-cam-294-fdp.html

Any thoughts?

 

[PRHeads]

Frankly, if the whole goal is to make somewhere near 500hp from a set of big valve 516’s....... that’s really not that hard to do.
As Jim proved with his low compression dyno mule test that made basically 450.
Add some compression and a healthy solid cam and you’re there.
The higher the CR, and the bigger the cam is that you can tolerate(up to a point), the “less good” the heads have to be to get the desired results.
440, 10.5:1, something like the MP557 cam, good single plane intake, 1-7/8” or 2” headers, heads flowing 260+, you’d be right in that 500hp+ range.

Then the possible issue is....... does that suit the goals for the vehicle?

If it’s a street/strip or bracket car with a loose converter and steep gears, where idle quality, overall street manners and fuel mileage don’t matter, and you don’t have to run a brake booster off the engine vacuum...... then you’re golden.

But if you want it to drive around nice with 3.23’s and a tight 11” converter....... you might have been better off with a smaller cam....... that would have cost you some HP.

Making the power is usually not the hard part(as long as the budget is sufficient).
Getting a high powered combo to be street friendly is usually the hard part.

500hp isn’t that hard with a BB Mopar.
Obviously easier with a 440 than one of the smaller options.

 

[PRHeads]

Went to Crower and gave them the parameters that I thought I could attain, which pretty much align with what Dodge Bros. expressed. Here's their recommendation-
https://www.crower.com/mopar-350-440-b-pro-street-solid-cam-294-fdp.html

Any thoughts?

I used that cam in a 440 back in about 87.
Very nice street cam, excellent manners.
Sold it to a friend of mine years later(I’d only used it for maybe 500 Miles) and we put it in his KB quench dome piston 446 that had some pretty nicely ported big valve 452’s(270+), performer RPM, 850 carb, 1-7/8” headers.
It was in the 475hp range on the dyno.
11.30’s-40’s in decent air in a 3550lb package with a 3000 converter and 4.10’s.
That was a really good running and nice driving combo.
After a few thousand street miles and several hundred 1/4 mile passes one of the LY rods broke....... and that was the end of that.

 

[Mark Barnes]

I used that cam in a 440 back in about 87.
Very nice street cam, excellent manners.
Sold it to a friend of mine years later(I’d only used it for maybe 500 Miles) and we put it in his KB quench dome piston 446 that had some pretty nicely ported big valve 452’s, performer RPM, 850 carb, 1-7/8” headers.
It was in the 475hp range on the dyno.
11.30’s-40’s in decent air in a 3550lb package with a 3000 converter and 4.10’s.
That was a really good running and nice driving combo.
After a few thousand street miles and several hundred 1/4 mile passes one of the LY rods broke....... and that was the end of that.

Thank you. Just about the exact combination I'm looking for....in a 383, w/727 3051lb. Belvedere ll.
If it runs halfway decent for a while with a 2800 stall and a 3.91, and happens to blow a rod out, I'll still walk away smiling.

 

[Dodge Bros]

No question the solid Crower would get you closer to your goal if your wanting 450-500 hp. Keep in mind the lash comes off the .050 specs. The .022” probably removed 11* or so from the .050” durations. At .050” it would have an effective duration of around 231* out at the valves. It has a lot of seat timing, that will make it a little rowdy. It reminds me of a MP 284/284 .528/528 cam. Running the lash tight on the MP 284 would produce similar specs out at the valve as that Crower. A lot of guys have had good success with the MP284. Looking at the specs of the Crower it appears it is designed for a .842” lifter? Versus a MP 284 solid is a .904 design. You might give up some average hp with the .842” profile. Top end hp the Crower should do well against the MP.

Our current 383 project is using a 704 voodoo. I think the Crower your looking at would out muscle the 704 Lunati (234/[email protected]”). The 284/284 MP solid cam would as well. Ours is a budge build, not really after every last hp. If I was going to go for it I probably would have had Bullet grind a custom .904 hydrualic cam with closer to 240* at .050”, a good amount of seat timing and run Rhoads V series lifters to tame the cam down. But I think we will be happy with the lunati. 65 dart isn’t exactly a big car for the engine to drag around.

We are keeping our 383 build some what grounded. Lol... have enough money in the 541 B engine for the 72 sat and the 440 Stage 6 for the 69 bee.

I hope I am not confusing you on what to do, nothing wrong with that Crower. IMO it is a little better suited for a 440. 383 would like a little narrower LSA to pull the tq peak down some.

FWIW, Bullet has some wicked Mopar solid grinds. Call Tim up at Bullet and tell him Jay from Nebraska suggested you should look at the Ultradyne .904 grinds...Maybe mention to him E/I ratio is a little low on a 230-240 cfm intake, and you have about 10 scr, gunning for 500 hp. Those .904 grinds will be a little more friendly to drive and make more power. Maybe a 270/278 (243/251) or a 274/278 (247/251) on a 110lsa. A little more $$$. Most of the time we run their cams.

 

[PRHeads]

That Crower is a nice little solid cam...... but it’s not enough cam to get that close to 500hp in a 10:1 383 with 250cfm 516’s.

Well...... it wouldn’t here anyway.

Gonna need pretty good heads to start approaching that level.

 

[Dodge Bros]

That Crower is a nice little solid cam...... but it’s not enough cam to get that close to 500hp in a 10:1 383 with 250cfm 516’s.

Well...... it wouldn’t here anyway.

Gonna need pretty good heads to start approaching that level.

I agree. Crower would be a 440-450 ish hp solid cam in my 10 scr 383 with my 516 heads.. 250 cfm...start grinding

 

[PRHeads]

Here’s some numbers from ported 516’s with 2.14/1.81 valves.
I didn’t do anything to these but flow them.
They were on a motor that was getting redone and the decision was made to use other heads, as these had a couple of repairs that could have been problematic down the road.

I remember there was a fair amount of work done to them, but I don’t recall them having any chamber mods.
Tested on a 4.375” bore, so they lose a few cfm on a 4.250.

Lift———in/ex
.100—- 65/49
.200—- 132/101
.300—- 191/134
.400—- 229/161
.500—- 257/179
.600—- 264/191
.700—- 268/197

 

[Mark Barnes]

Here’s some numbers from ported 516’s with 2.14/1.81 valves.
I didn’t do anything to these but flow them.
They were on a motor that was getting redone and the decision was made to use other heads, as these had a couple of repairs that could have been problematic down the road.

I remember there was a fair amount of work done to them, but I don’t recall them having any chamber mods.
Tested on a 4.375” bore, so they lose a few cfm on a 4.250.

Lift———in/ex
.100—- 65/49
.200—- 132/101
.300—- 191/134
.400—- 229/161
.500—- 257/179
.600—- 264/191
.700—- 268/197

Thanks for all the great info, PR and Dodge Bros. Is there any areas to stay away from in the 516's? I've read that some guys got into water pretty easily....

 

[dvw]

Thank you. Just about the exact combination I'm looking for....in a 383, w/727 3051lb. Belvedere ll.
If it runs halfway decent for a while with a 2800 stall and a 3.91, and happens to blow a rod out, I'll still walk away smiling.

How did you get a Belvedere II down to 3051lbs? I help a friend with a 65 Belvedere with a 440. Aluminum parts: heads, intake, wheels, master cylinder. Car has headers with no exhaust system or spare. Manual steering and brakes. No undercoating. Everything else is stock. Empty weight 3550.
Doug

 

[Mark Barnes]

How did you get a Belvedere II down to 3051lbs? I help a friend with a 65 Belvedere with a 440. Aluminum parts: heads, intake, wheels, master cylinder. Car has headers with no exhaust system or spare. Manual steering and brakes. No undercoating. Everything else is stock. Empty weight 3550.
Doug

Here. I know it's true because it was on the internet. That, and the one I have is a 273, so there's THAT...

 

[dvw]

Here. I know it's true because it was on the internet. That, and the one I have is a 273, so there's THAT...

View attachment 936651

So you've never weighed it.

 

[PRHeads]

No point in arguing about weight.

You go to the scales....... it weighs what it weighs.

NHRA shows the shipping weight for a 66 Belvedere II 2 door with a 383 4bbl as 3481lbs.
(Slant 6 shown as 3138lbs, 273 shown as 3303)

Personally, I doubt a full body, full interior, big block, 727, 8-3/4, 66 B body is going to come it at under 3100lbs without some fairly serious weight trimming.

But....... once it hits the scales...... then you’ll know for sure.

 

[Mark Barnes]

No point in arguing about weight.

You go to the scales....... it weighs what it weighs.

NHRA shows the shipping weight for a 66 Belvedere II 2 door with a 383 4bbl as 3481lbs.
(Slant 6 shown as 3138lbs, 273 shown as 3303)

Personally, I doubt a full body, full interior, big block, 727, 8-3/4, 66 B body is going to come it at under 3100lbs without some fairly serious weight trimming.

But....... once it hits the scales...... then you’ll know for sure.

You're probably right. I've only had it for a little while and it hasn't been out of the driveway yet. 3500 is around where it will end up.

 

[Curiousyellow71]

...Is there any areas to stay away from in the 516's? I've read that some guys got into water pretty easily....

If you pull some valves out and post some pictures it would be easier to tell you how to proceed porting. Also...I don't know if you've bought a torque converter yet, but I'd recommend a 9 1/2. They are tight and you can cruise on the street just fine, Imo your 383 combo is going to respond to more stall then 2900. Ptc or dynamic...good choices.
Porting my concern would be going straight in the bowl deep with 2.14s. It likely will get thin as you approach the radius. The short side I don't think you will have any trouble just blending it. But, I believe the exhaust are where guys tend to grind to much on 516s and hit a water jacket, they seem to lack cfm on the exhaust even after port work (compared to the later heads).

 

[PRHeads]

I believe the exhaust are where guys tend to grind to much on 516s and hit a water jacket, they seem to lack cfm on the exhaust even after port work (compared to the later heads).

Agreed.
Resist the urge to take too much off the “bulges” on the inside wall and roof.
There’s water on the other side of them.

 

[RemCharger]

500 inches.

Here is a little write up on it in the Hot Rod Magazine archives. Scroll down to the LaRoy Engines entry. The first time the engine was bolted to Comp Cams dyno the water was never turned on to the engine and it was fried during the ring break in process. After emergency surgery the wounded engine never ran really good when back on the dyno the next day for another try.

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/mopp-1203-the-amsoil-mopar-muscle-engine-challenge/

Wow thats some serious 906's! These 286's I'm working on I was told were in the 325cfm range, making 750 on a max effort 440. Ran 9.30s in a tube chassis car. I'm hoping for up to 700 (440) but won't be dynod , so irrelevant .
As far as on topic, I built a 516 383 10.1 284 xe, which I believe to be in the 425hp range, ran 105 in a 4000lb charger. Also some on a bracket 440 lighter car, low 12s. That surprised me .