67 Satellite suspension

[NickOReilly]

So Ive been reading and sifting, finally think Ill just ask.. Im putting together my dads 67 satellite, swapping a 440 for its 318. Im in a hurry to get it back together for a wedding and want to save money and time where i can, but sure am scared of a horrible handling car with all that added weight and torque. Can i get by with the 318 (.88??)torsion bars? (I dont have the car, otherwise Id measure them) Im not looking for anything crazy, a decent handling street car, but Im sure Ill enjoy standing on it more than i mean to :headbang: Its a '70 440 auto, gonna run hp manifolds, what dad called a 'stout cam', Im sure nothing wild. Dont really know what to expect from the motor.. Dont know what size tires yet.. Well be getting to that soon enough.

Theres an old junk set of air shocks on the back. No idea what to do back there yet.

What other suspension advice might someone bestow upon me? Are there any other 'musts' when replacing a 318 with a 440?

thanks fellas! Cheers!ccasion14:

 

[747mopar]

Get rid of the air shocks ASAP, the factory shock absorber cross member is not strong enough to hold the weight of the car which is what happens when using those. The leaves won't like the hard launches and will probably want to wind up causing wheel hop. I think you can drive it around with those springs but it will be pretty soft and likely have allot of body roll in the corners. I would bump them up if it were me, leaves and torsion bars aren't very expensive at all, give PST (see adds on right of page) or Summit Racing.

 

[miller]

A 318 car (from the factory) was set-up with lighter suspension. Your dropping a 440 into it.

Look at a set of SS rear springs, heavy-duty shocks for the rear.

Mainly on the front, the correct size torsion bars. Might want to do a check on your brake set-up, too. 318 car might have brakes on the light side.

 

[YY1]

Neither is a deal killer, but not ideal.

Neither is difficult to change later, either.

You can crank up the T bars to at least help a bit.

Gott a love a factory user adjustable front suspension!!

 

[miller]

Another evil thought. Forgot 318 cars probably ran a 8 1/4 rear. With a 440, I'd run a 8 3/4.

Mopars...don't you love the options! Run what ya brung.

 

[Herr_Poopschitz]

The most important question is 'does the car have a sway bar?'

Torsion bars do jack for roll stiffness.

 

[monaco66coupe]

I have some 383 bars, that should help. If your on a tight budget, add a leaf to the rear springs. You probably don't have a lower A frame with the sway bar anchors, so get some good gas shocks. You can deal with the 10"
brake issue later.

 

[Jim Bob The Dancing Bear]

No one has asked the most important questions and that is what condition is your suspension in today? How are your ball joints, tie rod ends, idler arm, pitman arm, upper a-arm bushings, lower a-arm bushings exc. Before you improve anything you must have a solid foundation. Then add some springs (torsion bars front and leafs rear) that will handle what you need them to do. Once that is all done you can upgrade to make it perform better with items like sway bars and added leafs or different leaf springs and sub frame connectors.

You should be able to find some used big block torsion bars fairly cheap. The rear end and leafs will be fine for now but do get decent shocks and trash the air shocks.

I would also look at the brakes. If it has been off of the road for a while new wheel cylinders and rubber hoses with a complete fluid change and the drums adjusted correctly is just as important as the suspension.

 

[NickOReilly]

Thanks for all the input guys! Yeah I was planning on losing the air shocks 747, and didnt really expect the rear leafs to be stout enough, and planned on some good gas shocks, like everyone said. Feel like kind of a dipsh*t but I don't know if the car has a swaybar, pretty sure it doesn't. And I dont really know about everything JimBob, the car has been gone for so damn long, not too sure. Ill freshen anything up that needs it, got a competent buddy that will help me through that.
Yeah my main concern was if my torsion bars/rear would hold up.. got my answer! Probably should deal with it now.
Yeah Monaco, you and miller are right, drums all around. But Ill have to wait to deal with that problem.
And miller, I think '67 satellites had 8 3/4 rear ends.. but could be wrong though, ours is anyways, its the 741 open case though, still trying to figure out a sure-grip solution

Monaco, still waiting for a time to make that run to omaha, still have that trim for me? Maybe Ill take you up on those bars too..

If I were to buy new bars, should I go with the 0.92'' or 0.96'' bars?

And if I were to put new springs on the back, would I want to go with the MP Original equip. replacments or one of the Competition springs? Dont know the weight of the car with a 440.. Id guess 3,400lbs? The competition springs are 3300, 3400, 3600, 3800lbs max... does this mean if my car weighs 3500, and I put 3800lb springs, I cant have more than 300lbs in the car? Roughly? ...Teach the kid! Please!

And I love the pitched look, nothing too extreme awesome like the Silver Bullet, but I dont want a level stance.. but, Ill lean toward function over fashion in my old age ;) in case that influence anyones advice..?

Thanks fellas! Dont know where Id be without y'all!

 

[monaco66coupe]

Most everything I have.I go by the original springs, five and six for 383, 6 and7 four the 440. not spring rate, I'm old fashioned. A .92 is a 67' 440HP GTX spring A .88 is a Roadrunner, 383 with or without A/C. If it is and any bigger you will change the personality of the car, Your choice.

Sorry, I just had to mention, I moved a 67'four door Coronet today for a friend, and it is a slant six with a split dual exhaust, and it has A Hemi four speed transmission. What a strange combo!

 

[miller]

Are there any other 'musts' when replacing a 318 with a 440?

Guessing you already know. Went back through the post.
You know about the K frame bit, right? Since I forgot about it.

There seems to be alot of great info on the site, so you can hunt things down. (Did I mention the first rule on this stuff is...have fun with it!!)

 

[dpstark2]

My '67 Charger with a 440 and aluminum top end has 1.06 Firm Feel torsion bars up front and XHD leafs out back. Even the XHD's sit a bit low for my taste, but the price from Summit was right. The torsion bars are not too stiff, and they definitely aid in creating a lower stance up front without sacrificing ride quality. It currently has KYB's at all four corners, but I'd go Bilsteins now if I had to do it again. It is a street (not track) car and I drive it hard, but don't race it. Highly recommend a sway bar (Firm Feel, for example) up front as well if you can swing it.

For what it's worth, as has already been said, if you're swapping suspension parts, just do your bushings and stuff now!

 

[67Satty]

A lot depends on how you want to use the car when you are done. I'm going to tell you what I did when I did the same exact motor swap with the same exact car.

First, I converted from the factory drum brakes to disc brakes in the front. Next, I replaced every possbile thing that could be replaced in the front end with new parts- ball joints, pitman arm, idler arm, tie rods (went with the bigger 11/16" C-Body size because they were the same price). The only thing I kept was the stock 318 torsion bars. My car came with AC and those bars are a little bigger than the 318 non-AC cars got. Here's a chart:

.810" 90#/in p5249148 drag bars
.830" 100#/in (2535888-9) slant six bars
.850" 110#/in (2535890-1) slant six w/ air--318 w/o air )
.870" 120#/in p5249149 (2535892-3) 318 w/ air--340 std bars
.890" 130#/in p5249150 383 std bars
.920" 150#/in p5249151 h/d handling
.990" 200#/in p5249152 solo/road race
1.040" 250#/in p5249153 h/d solo road race-oval track
1.090" 300"/in p5249154 oval track 1/4 mi--optional 1/2 mi
1.140" 300#/in p5249155 oval track 1/4 and 1/2 mile

I had added a swaybar, then took it off for better weight transfer at the track and noticed no difference in handling.

The other thing to keep in mind is that you can do things to even up the weight difference between swapping from the 318 to the 440 to take weight off the front end. I saved some weight by swapping to manual steering and ditching the AC compressor and running a mini starter. You are probably going to run an alumimum intake (that's almost a given these days - 25 pound weight savings). Headers would save you another 25 pounds. You might be running aluminum heads (50 pound weight savings) and an aluminum water pump housing (15 pound weight savings). You could always put a fiberglass hood on it and move the battery to the trunk. It all adds up fast.

I run my car with no swaybar, 90/10 Calverts, 165 radials, bias slicks (mixing radials and bias plies), SS springs - a lot of things people online will say will make your car handle bad/scary on the street - in effort to lower the 60 foot time. I have no problems driving it to the track on narrow, very twisty mountain roads that would have most flatlanders freaking out. To me, the car drives just fine but that's because every single suspension part except the torsion bars has been replaced with new parts. I think freshening everything up with new parts is more important than which parts you pick. Oh, and getting a good alignment helps too.

 

[747mopar]

Like 67 Satty said, it's all in what you want. If you don't like a real firm ride just go with a set of standard BB springs and torsion bars. I'll also mention that Just Suspension makes your leaves custom to your order so you can change ride height if wanted, I'm sure PST probably can to. Replacing all of the worn out rubber in the suspension is a must as well, poly bushing will firm things up a bit and are a good upgrade.

 

[GTX MATT]

Same car here, I had swapped in my 440 with the stock T bars and leaf springs. My stuff was also whipped. Car was mushy, but the front end is good for drag racing. If you're not interested in maximum weight transfer, and since you don't have 500+ horse anyway, go ahead and run the GTX T bars (.92) and the XHD leaf springs. The stock springs in these are the same as the Road Runners and whatnot with standard suspension. Mine, being very worn out, would hop a little bit, I had 2.94 open gears.

I've now got Super Stock springs, new shocks, still need to rebuild the front end, and the engine makes ALOT more power. Haven't had her out yet, I've got a set of 383 torsion bars I want to swap in to get the stance I want without having the T bars wound up all the way.

The different weight limits on the S/S springs are related to how much they are arched. They all have the same spring rate (except the 002/003) at 125 lbs/inch. The 3800 lb springs have more arch than the 3400 though. If you decide to go with them I would run the 454/455 springs, thats what I've got.

The 10 inch drums on our cars are barely sufficient with a small block, 11 inch drums work pretty well but 10 inch is no good with the 440. I drove mine around with the 10 inch drums too though.

 

[NickOReilly]

Wow thanks everyone, lots of information. Ill know a lot more when I get the car back, hopefully very soon, Ill keep you guys posted. Heading north to meet a big time Mopar guru this weekend, Ill see what he has to say too. While were on the road, stopping in to see our car too, been months since Ive seen her. Im nervous as hell, the guy says the quarters arent fitting well. Wish us luck.