'69 Super Bee Restoration Question

[Mopars & Missiles]

I have been restoring my Bee for a number of years now and it is almost finished. A couple days ago I was talking with the shop (this is a major Mopar shop, well known for their restorations. You've seen their cars in all the magazines) that is doing the final assembly work on the car and a discrepancy came up. While looking the car over, I asked why the 383 engine callout emblems were not installed yet on the fenders? The shop guy then informed me that my car SHOULD NOT have fender emblems since the car has an N96 fresh air hood with the 383 emblems on the hood scoops. He claims that everyone he has talked to about this (Paul Jacobs, Keith Rohm, etc., all the big name experts) say the same thing, if it has an N96 hood it SHOULD NOT have the fender emblems. They all say the factory DID NOT install fender emblems (in this case, 383 Four Barrel) on a Super Bee equipped with the N96 fresh air hood. OK,............now here's the rub.

Rub #1. I personally have owned this car for every single day of the last 40 YEARS, and those emblems have been on the fenders the ENTIRE 40 years. I bought the car from my 1st cousin in 1973, so I know some of its history prior to me as well.

Rub #2. I have a couple of photos (both sides of the car shown) from about October 1969 when the car was approximately 2 or 3 months old (purchased off the dealer lot in late July or August 1969) that clearly show the 383 Four Barrel emblems on the fenders of the car at that time.

After all this evidence to the contrary, the shop is still refusing to install the fender emblems on the car. :argue:

Does anyone have any FIRST HAND information on similar emblem issues with a '69 Super Bee?

Thanks in advance guys, for any info you may have!

 

[mattsmopars]

I went outside to take a picture of my 69 Bee. It has not been on the road since 1980 and is still original paint except for the grey primer that you can see. It is an original N96 383 4 speed car, and has no evidence or sign of ever having the 383 emblems on the fenders. It does however have the 383 badges on the scoops. I would guess it possible that a dealer might have installed them.
I also have a 67 coronet R/T that is a 440 auto in orginal paint. Someone at some time has added 440 magnum emblems to the fenders of it. It would not have cam factory with the 440 emblems on the fenders because the 440 was the base engine in the R/T so the only fender badge on a 67 R/T would have been a 426 Hemi.
Hope this helps,
Matt

 

[Pysyko]

I'm no expert...

I went outside to take a picture of my 69 Bee. It has not been on the road since 1980 and is still original paint except for the grey primer that you can see. It is an original N96 383 4 speed car, and has no evidence or sign of ever having the 383 emblems on the fenders. It does however have the 383 badges on the scoops. I would guess it possible that a dealer might have installed them.
I also have a 67 coronet R/T that is a 440 auto in orginal paint. Someone at some time has added 440 magnum emblems to the fenders of it. It would not have cam factory with the 440 emblems on the fenders because the 440 was the base engine in the R/T so the only fender badge on a 67 R/T would have been a 426 Hemi.
Hope this helps,
Matt

Hi, my 1969 Bee had only a power bulge
hood, no emblems.
BUT I think if your car had them, they should
be 383 Magnum, not 383 four barrel.
Me thinks someone added them.
Either way, it's YOUR CAR, YOU ARE PAYING
the BILL. If you want them on, tell them
to put them on!!!
I'm putting a pistol grip in my 69 cuz
I like them & I like guns & I'm ready to
defend my cars honor when the fender
tag wizards come out!!!
Enjoy YOUR car the way YOU like it!
My two cents Canadian...

 

[Pysyko]

I must have done something wrong.
Bees have 383 magnums, not 383 four
Barrels.
Your $ you get as many 383 four bbl or
magnum or anything you like!
Enjoy your car!
I changed to a ramcharger hood, but I
may put those fender emblems on too!!

 

[ky509]

Emblems are like the side marker lights on the superbee, they all suck and take away from the beautiful lines of the car. Personally I had all emblems and side marker lights removed from my Superbee. It now has much cleaner lines and does not look like a 18 wheeler coming down the road with all those little cheap side marker light glowing like a radish in a goats butt. Leave the emblems off the car will look much better. Jmtc

 

[WileE]

First of all, you are the paying customer & it is you who says what goes on the car. I get a kick out of all these so-called Mopar "experts". Anybody who's been around these cars since they rolled off the assembly line will tell you what "should be" is not necessarily "what is". Errors, missed or added options, mis-badging, carry-over parts, etc. was not uncommon. Assembly lines were not rocket science back then, what ever way it came off is what it was. Especially since you have documentation as such, makes these people look like fools.

 

[Mopars & Missiles]

I went outside to take a picture of my 69 Bee. It has not been on the road since 1980 and is still original paint except for the grey primer that you can see. It is an original N96 383 4 speed car, and has no evidence or sign of ever having the 383 emblems on the fenders. It does however have the 383 badges on the scoops. I would guess it possible that a dealer might have installed them.
I also have a 67 coronet R/T that is a 440 auto in orginal paint. Someone at some time has added 440 magnum emblems to the fenders of it. It would not have cam factory with the 440 emblems on the fenders because the 440 was the base engine in the R/T so the only fender badge on a 67 R/T would have been a 426 Hemi.
Hope this helps,
Matt

Matt, really appreciate you taking the time to check this out on your car. This tends to support the "experts" theory of the fender emblems being left off when you have the N96 hood. From some more research and checking that I've done I also tend to believe the "experts" are correct on this. BUT, that doesn't explain the photo I have of my car when it was about 3 months old that shows the emblems on the fenders.

I tend to agree with you that the dealer MAY have installed the emblems for whatever reason. The car was built in November '68 but wasn't sold until July or August of '69. So it obviously must have set on the dealer lot for a few months.

I intend to speak to the original owner and ask him what he remembers about the fender emblems when he brought it home from the dealer. I'll let you know what I find out. :homework:

- - - Updated - - -

First of all, you are the paying customer & it is you who says what goes on the car. I get a kick out of all these so-called Mopar "experts". Anybody who's been around these cars since they rolled off the assembly line will tell you what "should be" is not necessarily "what is". Errors, missed or added options, mis-badging, carry-over parts, etc. was not uncommon. Assembly lines were not rocket science back then, what ever way it came off is what it was. Especially since you have documentation as such, makes these people look like fools.

I agree with you, what "should be" may not necessarily be true for my car since I have the photo of it when only a couple months old. Wish there was some way to "prove" how it really was. Hopefully the original owner can remember something about the emblems.

I'll probably never know how the emblems got on the fenders of this car. :icon_scratch: But I'll tell you what, after 40 years I'm pretty well used to seeing them there!

I also wonder whether different plants assembled them slightly different from another plant. Mine was built at the Lynch Road plant. ccasion14:

 

[WileE]

I was in Detroit in 1968 & my uncle worked at the Hamtramck plant. What he told me then about how the assembly line worked could best be described as "haphazard". That's why I laugh when I hear/read about these "experts" proporting to be the know-all-end-all of what must be on a certain car. The truth is, what was on the car just happened to be how it came off the line, "correct" or not.

 

[David Hunt]

If you look on this site 69 Bee half top, you will see pictures of my SuperBee with a half vinal top, that people say was not true to car. It was produced with the car. Look at pictures, Never say Never David Hunt

 

[Mopars & Missiles]

I spoke with the original owner about the fender 383 emblems on this car. He stated positively that "they were on the car when he bought it new and drove it home from the dealer's lot." He "DID NOT" add them at a later date.

So, there are only two possible explanations.

1. The factory installed the 383 emblems on the fenders on the assembly line. (Experts must be wrong?)

2. The dealer installed the 383 emblems on the fenders after it was delivered to them prior to sale to the original owner. (Why would they do that?)


So, my decision is to put them back on? or not? :icon_scratch:

 

[440beep]

Its your car, YOU HAVE DOCUMENTATION SHOWING THE BADGING, if your going the route of having it as delivered, then put the badging on. The decision is up to you, no one else. And tell that shop you're the paying customer, do as I want! Does the prior owner have any pictures of when he took delivery?

I spoke with the original owner about the fender 383 emblems on this car. He stated positively that "they were on the car when he bought it new and drove it home from the dealer's lot." He "DID NOT" add them at a later date.

So, there are only two possible explanations.

1. The factory installed the 383 emblems on the fenders on the assembly line. (Experts must be wrong?)

2. The dealer installed the 383 emblems on the fenders after it was delivered to them prior to sale to the original owner. (Why would they do that?)


So, my decision is to put them back on? or not? :icon_scratch:

 

[themechanic]

Put them back on. Especially since you've well documented they were on the car when the original owner purchased it from the dealership.

 

[Clay Dots]

was not uncommon for factory goof ups, I know of dozens of stories of parts that were either added or eliminated or placed in the wrong position at the factory. Its your car do it your way as above you have documentation, the experts love to tell you they know more (some with good intentions) than you. best wishes look forward to seeing your car )

 

[Pysyko]

383 on the fender....

Hey bud!
I think you should do & or get the shop to do as you please!
We all love them B bodies...
Thinking about it...I think you should put them on!
Glue em on, no holes jic.
I'm thinking of putting those 383 magnum
emblems on my 69 Bee fenders...I think they look cool!
Even tho I switched to the ramcharger hood with emblems.
To each his own...
The main thing is there is another saved ol Bee!

 

[70beelee]

Hey its your car!if they want put them on put them on yourself if thats what you want,i have a 70 superbee, it was a 383 car. i have a 440 in it now. so i belive build it like you want it.unless your going to sell it. and drive it like you stold it!

 

[440beep]

See this month's issue of Mopar Collectors Guide with that untouched, original Hemi Charger with the Road Runner air cleaner cover. This car is a one owner car and was ordered brand new. Argue that judges and so called "know it alls" that its wrong and that Dodge NEVER WOULD HAVE DONE THAT.

Put the 383 badging back on the car.

 

[Mopars & Missiles]

Well, I did it. I put the fender emblems back on even with the N96 hood emblems. Now it looks just like it did back in 1969. Actually better.

Also I would like to add that I 100% appreciate and respect the "Mopar Experts" who spend countless hours researching and perfecting the restoration standards that are used to bring these cars back to life. But in this particular case, I believe the emblems were factory installed, so that is why I chose to return it to that configuration.

With a Mopar, you can never say "the factory didn't do it that way".

 

[azmoparhead]

Well, I did it. I put the fender emblems back on even with the N96 hood emblems. Now it looks just like it did back in 1969. Actually better.

the car looks great!! Enjoy!!

 

[roadrunnerman]

I agree the car looks great with the emblems on. Whether the "experts" like it or not. That's like the experts say a car doesn't exist because it was supposed to be destroyed after it toured the country for "promotions", then lo and behold it comes back to life with all the documentation to prove it is the real deal.

 

[SublimeSixpack]

With that back-in-the-day photo you have I would think that someone on the assembly line simply screwed up and put the badges on the fenders. He may have had a hangover that day, who knows.

Your car looks good!