9 keyway billet timing set

[dan juhasz]

So I purchased a billet single bolt 9 keyway timing set for my 440. I wanted a quality billet set but didn’t want or need the nine crank slots. Just run the cam straight up. Purchased from 440 Source but turns out it’s a Summit private label part. So first thing I notice is the marks are not either directly on a cam tooth and not centered in the valley of the crank gear either. I’ve never encountered this. I set the engine on tdc first by just sliding the timing cover and dampener in place and confirmed it to be true by using a cam degree wheel and piston stop. If I disassemble and lay the old and new cam gear on top of each other and use a appropriate socket to center both hubs the teeth and dowel line up, I can dab a paint mark to the nearest tooth and they would be identical. If I do the same with the crank gear , centering both gears and lining up the teeth the key ways do not line up with what is supposed to be zero. They will line up if I use the R4 slot.
And yes I called 440 source, Mike was of no help, I sent him pictures and as yet have received no reply. Has anyone every run into this, am I missing something?

 

[RemCharger]

If you degree the cam properly, it matters not where the marks are. That's the beauty of the 9 way. All you need to know is your desired ICL.
If your number is 108 then make it 108

 

[BSB67]

1 - The good news: you can put the cam timing just about anywhere you want when decreeing the cam.

2 - The bad news: the manufacturers aren’t compelled to actually make them right, because of #1 above.

 

[pnora]

That style is made for adjustment which requires you to degree the cam. You should of ordered one that is designed for the straight up install. With all the garbage on the market I trust none and degree every one.

 

[R/T Boy 67]

Those marks are only to get you in the ballpark. You need to degree it into where you want it. There are some gear drives that don't have any marks, so I've read.

 

[dan juhasz]

I have watched multiple videos on how to degree a cam with the heads on. All have different methods, at least for me I'm much more of a visual learner, unfortunately I find it difficult. I'll keep trying.

 

[dvw]

I'm about to degree with the head on. #1 Mount the dial indicator pointer on the edge of the retainer where it clears the rocker. The 2nd valve backon the head being the intake valve. #2 Mount the degree wheel with a pointer at TDC when the crank is at TDC compression stroke on the #1 cylinder. #3 rotate engine to as close to max liftread on the dial indicator as possible. #4 Back the crank counterclockwise untill the dial indicator drops .100" from the peak lift number. #5 Now rotate the crank clockwise stopping at .030" before the previously recorded max lift number indicated on the dial indicator. Record the number where the pointer indicates on the degree wheel . #6 Again rotate the crank clockwise until the dial indicator goes past max lift and stops again at .030" below max lift. Record the number on the degree wheel at the pointer. #7 Split the difference between the two degree wheel readings. This is your installed centerline. Example; peak lift at the valve is .500". Back the crank until the indicator reads .400". Rotate the crank to .470", stop and record the number lets use say 95 degrees ATDC. Continue to rotate until then indicator rises and then returns to .470". Record the number. Lets says its 125 degress ATDC. Add the two numbers and divide by 2. 95+125=220/ 2 = 110. This is your measured centerline. If its incorrect, advance or retard as needed. To do this you would use the corrosponding outer tooth and keyway. Such as the A2 keyway used with the A2 marked tooth instead of the 0 keyway and the dot. This would advance the cam 2 degrees
Doug

 

[dan juhasz]

I'm about to degree with the head on. #1 Mount the dial indicator pointer on the edge of the retainer where it clears the rocker. The 2nd valve backon the head being the intake valve. #2 Mount the degree wheel with a pointer at TDC when the crank is at TDC compression stroke on the #1 cylinder. #3 rotate engine to as close to max liftread on the dial indicator as possible. #4 Back the crank counterclockwise untill the dial indicator drops .100" from the peak lift number. #5 Now rotate the crank clockwise stopping at .030" before the previously recorded max lift number indicated on the dial indicator. Record the number where the pointer indicates on the degree wheel . #6 Again rotate the crank clockwise until the dial indicator goes past max lift and stops again at .030" below max lift. Record the number on the degree wheel at the pointer. #7 Split the difference between the two degree wheel readings. This is your installed centerline. Example; peak lift at the valve is .500". Back the crank until the indicator reads .400". Rotate the crank to .470", stop and record the number lets use say 95 degrees ATDC. Continue to rotate until then indicator rises and then returns to .470". Record the number. Lets says its 125 degress ATDC. Add the two numbers and divide by 2. 95+125=220/ 2 = 110. This is your measured centerline. If its incorrect, advance or retard as needed. To do this you would use the corrosponding outer tooth and keyway. Such as the A2 keyway used with the A2 marked tooth instead of the 0 keyway and the dot. This would advance the cam 2 degrees
Doug

Thank you Doug. That makes more sense than most of the instructions I have read. Only difference is Howard’s wants the measurements from .050 from each side of the base of the lobe as the both ramps are not symmetrical. My issue is I’m having an issue mounting the set up I own (thought I bought a decent kit) on the retainer. This would be so much easier A. Heads off, B. Engine out.

 

[Cranky]

So I purchased a billet single bolt 9 keyway timing set for my 440. I wanted a quality billet set but didn’t want or need the nine crank slots. Just run the cam straight up. Purchased from 440 Source but turns out it’s a Summit private label part. So first thing I notice is the marks are not either directly on a cam tooth and not centered in the valley of the crank gear either. I’ve never encountered this. I set the engine on tdc first by just sliding the timing cover and dampener in place and confirmed it to be true by using a cam degree wheel and piston stop. If I disassemble and lay the old and new cam gear on top of each other and use a appropriate socket to center both hubs the teeth and dowel line up, I can dab a paint mark to the nearest tooth and they would be identical. If I do the same with the crank gear , centering both gears and lining up the teeth the key ways do not line up with what is supposed to be zero. They will line up if I use the R4 slot.
And yes I called 440 source, Mike was of no help, I sent him pictures and as yet have received no reply. Has anyone every run into this, am I missing something?

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Always always always degree in a cam. Read the next reply below....

That style is made for adjustment which requires you to degree the cam. You should of ordered one that is designed for the straight up install. With all the garbage on the market I trust none and degree every one.

I started degreeing in my cams a lot of moons ago just because of mistakes made in the manufacturing process......and that includes all engines from bone stock to high performance.

Thank you Doug. That makes more sense than most of the instructions I have read. Only difference is Howard’s wants the measurements from .050 from each side of the base of the lobe as the both ramps are not symmetrical. My issue is I’m having an issue mounting the set up I own (thought I bought a decent kit) on the retainer. This would be so much easier A. Heads off, B. Engine out.

Doesn't matter if you use .050 or not so long as you go the same on both sides. Also I will throw in the cam when there's just one piston in the engine and check things then put in another on the other side and usually in the back and check the cam there. When the block isn't loaded, things are easy to turn. And I will at least check for true TDC with just the number 1 piston inserted. Also like to check the cam with the head on. If your heads are already on, you can use a piston stop to check for true TDC. Yeah, it's more of a pita when the engine is in but it's doable. A buddy and I did one at the track one night and we ended up advancing it (4 degrees iirc) and it got us about a tenth better ET. The car was already in the high 10's so imo, it was a homerun.

 

[BSB67]

Like this. Do need the tools.

 

[RemCharger]

It's a solid lifter cam?

 

[Krooser]

While I am not a huge fan of Uncle Tony he does have a video of how to degree a cam with a feeler gauge...but you need the intake off of the engine.

The first time I saw a cam degreed at all was in 1979 while volunteering on a crew at Bonneville. They used this method as most had never heard of a degree wheel.

Before the gubment got involved in emission controls on our engines every one I saw was degreed straight up from the factory.

After '74 or so they were mostly retarded *******************************************************

Edited out political content. Please use the Political Forum ONLY for political comments, thanks.

 

[BSB67]

While I am not a huge fan of Uncle Tony he does have a video of how to degree a cam with a feeler gauge...but you need the intake off of the engine.

The first time I saw a cam degreed at all was in 1979 while volunteering on a crew at Bonneville. They used this method as most had never heard of a degree wheel.

Before the gubment got involved in emission controls on our engines every one I saw was degreed straight up from the factory.

After '74 or so they were mostly retarded

What does straight up mean to you?

 

[Bird 426]

Well, put me on the list that I never have heard of degreeing a cam in with a feeler gauge. Pretty damn sure degree wheels have been the norm for a long time. I remember them from mid sixties, I'm 74.

 

[YY1]

Degree it.

It's worth it.

If a 20 year old kid (me) can do it reading Larry Shepard's instructions, so can you.

Buy the eccentric button kit and drill out the hole in the gear.