A theory on pulling front drum brakes - I need some schooling!

[sam dupont]

do you have photos of the brake assemblies? Wear marks on the shoes and drums? There may be an issue somebody would notice. If you have a worn out drum, I would cut it in two so I could slide it over the shoes and see how they move when the brakes are applied. I would want to see that right front do its thing.

 

[0DegreeEngineer]

Can you set that rascal up on a fairly level countertop/bench with the ends setting down and take a picture??
Further - would you be willing to sell it/ship it to me?

Here are the pictures you asked for I can check what shipping will cost this weekend and get back to you

 

[moparedtn]

Here are the pictures you asked for I can check what shipping will cost this weekend and get back to you

View attachment 1701050

View attachment 1701051

View attachment 1701052

Zip is 37857. Thanks!!

 

[moparedtn]

Have any drums been machined or turned or are you using glazed drums?

That can be a problem, but it would change with swapping drums and different drums.

The arcing of the shoes to the drum is a real thing. You could be using only half of the shoe surface on a drum that has been machined bigger.

do you have photos of the brake assemblies? Wear marks on the shoes and drums? There may be an issue somebody would notice. If you have a worn out drum, I would cut it in two so I could slide it over the shoes and see how they move when the brakes are applied. I would want to see that right front do its thing.

Gentlemen, at the sake of answering all manner of questions like yours again....
Instead, I offer the threads wherein I kept a running tally of all efforts made thus far on the car for your perusal:

DRUM Brake Overhaul - Now, for something totally different...
Drum brakes, all new, pulls left hard, hub still gets HOT
I'm going back to manual adjustment on my 11" front drums ('68 GTX)

There have been still more, but I'll refer to the site's Search feature instead for those.
Suffice to say, all you've suggested has been gone over/eliminated as possibilities - but the purpose of this thread
was simply to ask if the sway bar could be a contributing factor.
Actually, it doesn't matter anyways if it is or isn't - I know the bar I have needs replaced regardless.
Thanks.

 

[oldbee]

I’ve been thinking way too much!! Sway bar couldn’t do it unless it’s overloading the the strut rod/lower control arm. It’s nothing but an anti-torque tool to stop body roll. Something in alignment/body is going out of spec while you’re rolling OR “maybe “ a restricted brake line going to rt.frt.??

 

[Ray70Chrg]

Gentlemen, at the sake of answering all manner of questions like yours again....
Instead, I offer the threads wherein I kept a running tally of all efforts made thus far on the car for your perusal:

DRUM Brake Overhaul - Now, for something totally different...
Drum brakes, all new, pulls left hard, hub still gets HOT
I'm going back to manual adjustment on my 11" front drums ('68 GTX)

There have been still more, but I'll refer to the site's Search feature instead for those.
Suffice to say, all you've suggested has been gone over/eliminated as possibilities - but the purpose of this thread
was simply to ask if the sway bar could be a contributing factor.
Actually, it doesn't matter anyways if it is or isn't - I know the bar I have needs replaced regardless.
Thanks.

Hi Ed, I am a bit late to your thread on this subject. I was also doing my brakes at about the same time you were doing yours. Mine is power drum system that is the size as yours and when I finished everything was fine for a short time and then I noticed it started pulling to the left. Like you, I have done many manual adjustments to the front brakes to get them to slightly drag the same amount and I always find that the left wheel will be spinning freely, while the right wheel will have the same amount of drag I adjusted it to.
Any chance that you witnessed that in your findings. I know you waiting to see if a different sway bar was the problem. Thanks, Ray

 

[moparedtn]

Hi Ed, I am a bit late to your thread on this subject. I was also doing my brakes at about the same time you were doing yours. Mine is power drum system that is the size as yours and when I finished everything was fine for a short time and then I noticed it started pulling to the left. Like you, I have done many manual adjustments to the front brakes to get them to slightly drag the same amount and I always find that the left wheel will be spinning freely, while the right wheel will have the same amount of drag I adjusted it to.
Any chance that you witnessed that in your findings. I know you waiting to see if a different sway bar was the problem. Thanks, Ray

Hey Ray,
Yes sir, now that you mention it - it was as if the new self-adjusting hardware was backing off or something.
Never did find a logical explanation for it, must be beyond my mechanical comprehension I guess.
I wound up totally removing the self-adjusting hardware from the fronts and installing manual stuff, which
really didn't solve much either.

There HAS been a bit of an unexpected update on the situation, however:
As I had resigned myself to doing the usual disc conversion, something else started to occur as I drove Fred:
Fluid started "disappearing" from the master cylinder, ever so slowly...
Despite my looking for leaks under the car, inside the drums, the usual places, I came up empty at first.

Then it finally occured to me - the master cylinder itself, which was new when I bought Fred (and therefore,
had next to no miles on it) is apparently the "leakee" I believe.
As it's very difficult for me to maneuver under the dash these days, I haven't gotten under there to see what's
what, but I can almost smell the fluid when I'm driving Fred now.
It only makes sense - the very last thing on the system, the one I hadn't touched in my rebuild efforts, may
turn out to have been the culprit all along.

 

[Ray70Chrg]

Hey Ray,
Yes sir, now that you mention it - it was as if the new self-adjusting hardware was backing off or something.
Never did find a logical explanation for it, must be beyond my mechanical comprehension I guess.
I wound up totally removing the self-adjusting hardware from the fronts and installing manual stuff, which
really didn't solve much either.

There HAS been a bit of an unexpected update on the situation, however:
As I had resigned myself to doing the usual disc conversion, something else started to occur as I drove Fred:
Fluid started "disappearing" from the master cylinder, ever so slowly...
Despite my looking for leaks under the car, inside the drums, the usual places, I came up empty at first.

Then it finally occured to me - the master cylinder itself, which was new when I bought Fred (and therefore,
had next to no miles on it) is apparently the "leakee" I believe.
As it's very difficult for me to maneuver under the dash these days, I haven't gotten under there to see what's
what, but I can almost smell the fluid when I'm driving Fred now.
It only makes sense - the very last thing on the system, the one I hadn't touched in my rebuild efforts, may
turn out to have been the culprit all along.

Ed, thanks for replying, ironically the left front cylinder is the only one I replaced. when doing the initial rebuild I took all the cylinders apart and cleaned and inspected them and found nothing wrong, so I reinstalled them. Not long after everything was back together, and the car was running, I noticed fluid dripping down the left front wheel so I ordered just that cylinder and the new solved that problem.
I'm living with this problem for now. I'm 95% done with totally replacing everything in the a/c system, just need to pull a vacuum and recharge (Hopefully).

Thanks again, and HAPPY NEW YEARS !

 

[moparedtn]

Ed, thanks for replying, ironically the left front cylinder is the only one I replaced. when doing the initial rebuild I took all the cylinders apart and cleaned and inspected them and found nothing wrong, so I reinstalled them. Not long after everything was back together, and the car was running, I noticed fluid dripping down the left front wheel so I ordered just that cylinder and the new solved that problem.
I'm living with this problem for now. I'm 95% done with totally replacing everything in the a/c system, just need to pull a vacuum and recharge (Hopefully).

Thanks again, and HAPPY NEW YEARS !

Well, from what I remember the 10" and 11" drums took the same wheel cylinders (albeit with the lefts and rights
definitely being different from one another, of course) - so that wouldn't explain anything.

I even wondered if the difference in lengths of the metal lines going to left and right might have anything to do with
it (it shouldn't, since the pressures would even out side to side in the distribution block naturally).
So, if all the lines are open and the fluid is flowing free, it ought to be fine...

Hell, if it winds up being a master cylinder issue for me, I can't even explain how that would effect one side more
than the other....
Anyways, good luck with it and Happy New Years to you and yours!

 

[Mopar Miki]

Based on the pictures provided - there are old and or worn out suspension parts along with suspension parts having crusty surfaces. Perhaps the brake pulling problem is from worn out suspension parts and other related mechanical items...........

 

[AR67GTX]

I agree. From the above you replaced some ball joints (no sure which ones) and an idler arm. That still leaves the bushings and particularly the lower a-arm bushings and strut rod bushings which could be worn and allowing excessive suspension deflection on one or both sides.

When I noticed my GTXs brakes starting to pull to one side, I simply tightened up the opposite side a few clicks and took care of the issue.

I assume you have bleed the brakes. Did you get a good stream from all the wheel cylinders? Have you looked in the master cylinder to see what the fluid looks like? I recently removed the cap on my 20 year old master and found the front bowl was crystal clear and the rear bowl was just short of being classified as brown sludge. I tried suctioning it out but no good so I finally pulled and when I finally got all the goop out I found the compensating port was solidly plugged and the feed port was just goopped up solid - no front brakes.

Just a few ideas.

 

[moparedtn]

Based on the pictures provided - there are old and or worn out suspension parts along with suspension parts having crusty surfaces. Perhaps the brake pulling problem is from worn out suspension parts and other related mechanical items...........

I agree. From the above you replaced some ball joints (no sure which ones) and an idler arm. That still leaves the bushings and particularly the lower a-arm bushings and strut rod bushings which could be worn and allowing excessive suspension deflection on one or both sides.

When I noticed my GTXs brakes starting to pull to one side, I simply tightened up the opposite side a few clicks and took care of the issue.

I assume you have bleed the brakes. Did you get a good stream from all the wheel cylinders? Have you looked in the master cylinder to see what the fluid looks like? I recently removed the cap on my 20 year old master and found the front bowl was crystal clear and the rear bowl was just short of being classified as brown sludge. I tried suctioning it out but no good so I finally pulled and when I finally got all the goop out I found the compensating port was solidly plugged and the feed port was just goopped up solid - no front brakes.

Just a few ideas.

Gentlemen, if you're talking to me, I just recently had the car to the alignment shop - where we went over the entire
front end as a few years earlier, inspecting for worn components and such with rather large pry bars, etc.
(I posted a thread on that somewhere else on here).
Hard as we tried, nothing else warranted replacement on the front end, short of a bump stop and a boot or two.
In fact, once they got the toe adjusted correctly (to what I told them to put it at), the car drives/steers perfectly,
especially for a manual box. Next to zero slop even.

Yes, I've adjusted the front brakes side to side to get the exact same amount of drag on both, more than once also.

Regarding bleeding, yes - the whole goal is to get strong streams of air-free fluid, which I've gotten over and over
again.

The answer for mine, anyways - before committing to the whole she-bang of a disc conversion, I'm going to fetch a
new master cylinder and go through the process with that before finally giving up on front drums.