A833 wont go in 2nd on hard acceleration

[Danmc77]

It's been years since I last worked on my charger, but last time I did, I had a shifting issue:

68 charger 440
A833 4 speed Hurst shifter

Rowing through gears just cruising - no issue at all. Smooth and clean shifts.

When I get on it, 1st to 2nd shift doesn't work. Just won't go into 2nd at all. I can jump to 3rd no problem. I can slow down and downshift into 1st no problem.

If I remember correctly, I would have to slow down, go back into 1st and it would go through gears again fine if not flooring it. Almost like resetting it. But if I accelerate hard again, it still won't let me get into 2nd gear.

I did check out the linkage and tried to reset it with a pin and starting from scratch, but that didn't do anything.

Also, I'm doubting it's linkage since it shifts fine when accelerating at a more moderate speed.

I will add that prior to this issue, I had tranny out to replace clutch with a McLeod performance clutch. I had a hell of a time mating tranny and engine even with the alignment tool. Eventually got it to mate with bellhousing bolts drawing them together. I understand that's a red flag, but again it shifts flawlessly unless I'm flooring it, and it's only 2nd gear issue.

Any thoughts?

 

[dryheat]

I would suspect a worn out synchro ring.

 

[Danmc77]

I rebuilt the tranny in early 2000s but I can't have more than a couple thousand miles on the car in that time. Very little run time on the car since restored.

Plus wouldn't that present as a grinding issue? I could be wrong, but that was my thinking.

I'll also add - never had this issue prior to new clutch install, so all was shifting well with stock resto clutch

 

[Danmc77]

Only reason I swapped clutches was because the resto one I originally installed would slip and couldn't handle the power of my engine build.

 

[R413]

Also it the dog teeth are worn on the gear it will do this, amd second gear is the first one to have this happen. Crummy drivers grinding gears accelerates the wear.

 

[lewtot184]

When I used to mess with 4spds I found out that having good clutch release at higher rpms was critical.

 

[LB0442]

Just got done with one with almost the same problem a few months ago. 1973 cuda. He had just put a clutch in and 3-4 plus 4-3 shifts were great. 3-2 was bad really had to lean on it, no grinding though. 1-2 was ok sorta at slow speeds but terrible at high speeds. The "just installed a clutch" was my the light bulb moment. I pulled the trans and the pilot bushing was seized to the input shaft. He said he had to use bolts to pull it together, MMMM. I actually had to slice it to get it off of there. I had him buy the same bushing, it was pioneer one. It still went in the crank nice and stiff (lucky). I measured it and the inside was .002 smaller than the input shaft. Honed it for a while, installed trans by hand and worked great.

 

[steve340]

If you never had a problem with the old clutch and now you do with the new clutch.
I'd say clutch or pilot bush issue most likely - shifter problem is a maybe????

 

[Danmc77]

Yeah, I was leaning toward the same thing - maybe an issue with the pilot bushing since it seemed to be binding upon re-installation after the clutch. I'm just trying to think in my head how that would cause this problem. The mechanics of it.

I think I'll just pull it and really go through it to see if I can figure it out 100%. Thanks for the guidance guys.

 

[493 Mike]

Any time you have to pull things together with bolts or nuts, you are missing something/costing yourself money.
Mike

 

[velocityss1985]

Yeah, I was leaning toward the same thing - maybe an issue with the pilot bushing since it seemed to be binding upon re-installation after the clutch. I'm just trying to think in my head how that would cause this problem. The mechanics of it.

I think I'll just pull it and really go through it to see if I can figure it out 100%. Thanks for the guidance guys.

The mechanics of it are: if the input shaft is not slowing down (caused by a tight bushing grabbing the shaft tip), when you press in the clutch the syncro's cannot grab onto the gear enough to slow it down. There is another thought as well and this is a highly debated topic is what oil you used. If it is GL-5 rated it has extra high pressure additives that may cause the syncro rings to slip on the gear hub and not be able to slow it down enough to engage the gear. Worn dog teeth on the gear or synco will exaggerate this issue as well. Hope this helps. Either way it should probably come out for an inspection.

 

[440+6]

My take, input shaft hanging, or worn out sycros, dog houses tell the story.
Next thing is the transmission was never designed to shift at high rpms, had mine modified by liberty gear, Paul is the 833 expert there, they machine the inside of the sycnros and install square blockers for positive engagement.
Have a sticker on my window says.....
Shift as hard as you please, but don't break your arm!
I have tried power shifting through the gears a few times and never missed, mine is a street car at 450 hp and 540 tq, was guaranteed up to 650 hp and 700 tq.

Home liberty gear
They are twenty miles from me and do mostly extreme racing stuff, but still maintain a corner for our stuff also.

 

[padam]

Another possibility is broken or worn motor mounts putting things in a bind on acceleration.

 

[Fran Blacker]

Are the engine and bellhousing come from factory together or you bought separately? If separately you may have an alignment problem.

 

[wih69rr]

Not trying to get off topic but my A833 has a similar problem with second gear but at low speeds. Shifts fine into all gears as long as car is not moving. Examined the linkage for any possible binding or interference. Try to use second under very mild acceleration or short shifting will not go. Contrary, requires hard acceleration and force it into gear. Runout was checked prior to install. Only comment by builder was to drive it more with I can't at the moment. Originally a /6 car getting new rear end and drive shaft. Does anyone think that driving the car more can resolve this issue?

 

[493 Mike]

Not trying to get off topic but my A833 has a similar problem with second gear but at low speeds. Shifts fine into all gears as long as car is not moving. Examined the linkage for any possible binding or interference. Try to use second under very mild acceleration or short shifting will not go. Contrary, requires hard acceleration and force it into gear. Runout was checked prior to install. Only comment by builder was to drive it more with I can't at the moment. Originally a /6 car getting new rear end and drive shaft. Does anyone think that driving the car more can resolve this issue?

Usually driving a car with a problem like yours will eventually show the trouble but, it may be more costly to resolve.
Mike

 

[steve340]

I don't think driving it more will fix the problem. A gearbox should not need to be "forced" to shift a gear.

 

[matthon]

I do not think this is the problem, but for the heck of it, check the 1/2 and 3/4 studs and the gearshift levers.

Specifically the squared off section on each.
If the squared off section on the stud is rounded off it causes problems.
Also, if the squared off portion of the arm does not have enough engagement with the stud it can cause issues.

For me, it would get stuck in second, once shifted into second the arm would spin before the stud/gearshift lever, and therefore never make it completely out of second.
Sent both gearshift levers off to Brewers, they made new studs with a deeper squared off section.
Now the arms have more material to seat to, and there is no slack.

 

[wih69rr]

I do not think this is the problem, but for the heck of it, check the 1/2 and 3/4 studs and the gearshift levers.

Specifically the squared off section on each.
If the squared off section on the stud is rounded off it causes problems.
Also, if the squared off portion of the arm does not have enough engagement with the stud it can cause issues.

For me, it would get stuck in second, once shifted into second the arm would spin before the stud/gearshift lever, and therefore never make it completely out of second.
Sent both gearshift levers off to Brewers, they made new studs with a deeper squared off section.
Now the arms have more material to seat to, and there is no slack.

Glad you resolved your problem. Brewers rebuilt my tranny and I specifically sent separately both studs for the reason you mentioned. Gearshift lever fitment is good with no slack. Thanks for your comment. Will re-evaluate the levers again. Think it's a good idea you have.

 

[steve340]

Perhaps do some research on the shifter part numbers and the fork levers to ensure you do not have a mismatch of components.