Advice for a 73 Roadrunner - take 2 - with pix!
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Ron 73
Deceased, But not forgotton
Im sorry about that, i didn't type what i was thinking, stripes to off set it i think would make a great difference and would double the looks...
Bruzilla
Well-Known Member
Nice car, but I would be very suspicious of that mileage. Looking at the steering wheel and the missing paint under the shift lever, I'm guessing that car has seen a lot more than 22,000 miles. Also, look at the difference in the chrome trim on the door panels between the driver and passenger doors. The chrome on the driver's door should look like that on the passenger door on a true low-mile car, but it's completely gone above the arm rest and along where an arm would be rubbing for a long time. I couldn't get a good look at the brake and fuel pedals, but be sure to take a close look at them when you inspect the car. If you see any signs of significant wear on them, then you'll know for sure.
I've never seen a 73 road runner with the running bird and metal road runner badging on the C pillar like that. I have seen some that had the stripe delete that had just the running bird decal, although it's placed a bit higher than where this one is, but I've never seen a 73/74 with a vinyl roof that had the decal on it. The metal road runner badging on the trunk lid is correct, but the standing bird decal should be centered over it. Also, the car is missing the standing bird in circle decal on the front, so taking it all in it looks like whoever did the repaint didn't have a clue what road runner markings should be on the car and made a bad guess since it looks like they got everything wrong.
Missing bumper filler strips are common and cost about $80 to replace. I was going to replace mine but I'm pretty tall and having the strip missing makes it easier for me to put the gas cap back on since I can see the filler neck through the gap.
As to its worth, there are several considerations. First, I would bet that mileage isn't close to being right. Second, the definition of a "survivor" isn't very standardized, and many would consider a car that's been repainted, has some bodywork, a new top, has a new manifold/carb, valve covers, wheels, headers, stereo, etc., as not being a survivor. A survivor is generally considered to be a car that's exactly as it was when new without being restored, and that doesn't really apply to this car. "Numbers matching" is more of a value-added proposition when you're talking about rare or limited production drivetrain options, and this car is the basest of the base in that regard. If the car were a big block or 340 car with a 4-speed, numbers matching would add to its value, but with a 318/904, it's really just a hype item for the salesperson. Lastly, the interior is in good shape, but it is a bench seat with a column shifter, which is also the least desirable option.
I wouldn't go more than $4,000 on this car.
I've never seen a 73 road runner with the running bird and metal road runner badging on the C pillar like that. I have seen some that had the stripe delete that had just the running bird decal, although it's placed a bit higher than where this one is, but I've never seen a 73/74 with a vinyl roof that had the decal on it. The metal road runner badging on the trunk lid is correct, but the standing bird decal should be centered over it. Also, the car is missing the standing bird in circle decal on the front, so taking it all in it looks like whoever did the repaint didn't have a clue what road runner markings should be on the car and made a bad guess since it looks like they got everything wrong.
Missing bumper filler strips are common and cost about $80 to replace. I was going to replace mine but I'm pretty tall and having the strip missing makes it easier for me to put the gas cap back on since I can see the filler neck through the gap.
As to its worth, there are several considerations. First, I would bet that mileage isn't close to being right. Second, the definition of a "survivor" isn't very standardized, and many would consider a car that's been repainted, has some bodywork, a new top, has a new manifold/carb, valve covers, wheels, headers, stereo, etc., as not being a survivor. A survivor is generally considered to be a car that's exactly as it was when new without being restored, and that doesn't really apply to this car. "Numbers matching" is more of a value-added proposition when you're talking about rare or limited production drivetrain options, and this car is the basest of the base in that regard. If the car were a big block or 340 car with a 4-speed, numbers matching would add to its value, but with a 318/904, it's really just a hype item for the salesperson. Lastly, the interior is in good shape, but it is a bench seat with a column shifter, which is also the least desirable option.
I wouldn't go more than $4,000 on this car.
RJS
Well-Known Member
Nice car, but I would be very suspicious of that mileage. Looking at the steering wheel and the missing paint under the shift lever, I'm guessing that car has seen a lot more than 22,000 miles. Also, look at the difference in the chrome trim on the door panels between the driver and passenger doors. The chrome on the driver's door should look like that on the passenger door on a true low-mile car, but it's completely gone above the arm rest and along where an arm would be rubbing for a long time. I couldn't get a good look at the brake and fuel pedals, but be sure to take a close look at them when you inspect the car. If you see any signs of significant wear on them, then you'll know for sure.
I've never seen a 73 road runner with the running bird and metal road runner badging on the C pillar like that. I have seen some that had the stripe delete that had just the running bird decal, although it's placed a bit higher than where this one is, but I've never seen a 73/74 with a vinyl roof that had the decal on it. The metal road runner badging on the trunk lid is correct, but the standing bird decal should be centered over it. Also, the car is missing the standing bird in circle decal on the front, so taking it all in it looks like whoever did the repaint didn't have a clue what road runner markings should be on the car and made a bad guess since it looks like they got everything wrong.
Missing bumper filler strips are common and cost about $80 to replace. I was going to replace mine but I'm pretty tall and having the strip missing makes it easier for me to put the gas cap back on since I can see the filler neck through the gap.
As to its worth, there are several considerations. First, I would bet that mileage isn't close to being right. Second, the definition of a "survivor" isn't very standardized, and many would consider a car that's been repainted, has some bodywork, a new top, has a new manifold/carb, valve covers, wheels, headers, stereo, etc., as not being a survivor. A survivor is generally considered to be a car that's exactly as it was when new without being restored, and that doesn't really apply to this car. "Numbers matching" is more of a value-added proposition when you're talking about rare or limited production drivetrain options, and this car is the basest of the base in that regard. If the car were a big block or 340 car with a 4-speed, numbers matching would add to its value, but with a 318/904, it's really just a hype item for the salesperson. Lastly, the interior is in good shape, but it is a bench seat with a column shifter, which is also the least desirable option.
I wouldn't go more than $4,000 on this car.
This observation is spot on!!! Don't know about pricing but I'd guess the ask for it with all the "survivor" hype is closer to 10K.
Bruzilla
Well-Known Member
I just looked the car up and they're wanting $12.5k for it, and that's pretty outrageous. I've seen much nicer road runners selling for about 1/2 that with much better options. This car is typical of what we see being sold by dealerships, and this is a consignment deal so they're hoping for someone to just see a vintage road runner for sale and think the price is a good one. Also, on the website, they're saying the current owner bought the car at auction and they really have no idea what's been done to it over the years, so this isn't some one-owner car that's been sitting in a garage for most of the past 40 years.
Not to be a jerk, but I did work at a Ford dealership long enough to know that there are a LOT of legal repercussions for misrepresenting mileage on a car. At the dealership I was at, if they couldn't document the mileage on a 5-digit odo 100%, the car had to be listed as Exceeds Mechanical Limits (EML) and listed as "unknown" in ads. This place has 22,121 in the ad and is apparently telling potential buyers that's the mileage, so I would go to them and say they are being fraudulent on the mileage, point out all the tells, and explain the dim view the authorities take on odometer fraud, and see if they don't become much more flexible on the price.
Personally, I would pass on this car and spend a lot less money on a nice 73/74 with a decent engine and bucket seats and console shifter, but that's what I like.
Not to be a jerk, but I did work at a Ford dealership long enough to know that there are a LOT of legal repercussions for misrepresenting mileage on a car. At the dealership I was at, if they couldn't document the mileage on a 5-digit odo 100%, the car had to be listed as Exceeds Mechanical Limits (EML) and listed as "unknown" in ads. This place has 22,121 in the ad and is apparently telling potential buyers that's the mileage, so I would go to them and say they are being fraudulent on the mileage, point out all the tells, and explain the dim view the authorities take on odometer fraud, and see if they don't become much more flexible on the price.
Personally, I would pass on this car and spend a lot less money on a nice 73/74 with a decent engine and bucket seats and console shifter, but that's what I like.
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Serious Satellite
Well-Known Member
In all of my 56 years on the face of this earth, well, at least from the time I was 18 till now, I've never seen a chrome Road Runner emblem on the pillar column like that.. The halo vinyl roof I have seen on a bird before, but they were much more common on the Satty's. And I think that is kinda cool.
But given the price of that car, I would stay away. I'm suspicious of that car.
But given the price of that car, I would stay away. I'm suspicious of that car.
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gtx1of1
Well-Known Member
looks great
YY1
Well-Known Member
I would agree with 90% of what Bruzilla has mentioned. I almost pointed out the mileage myself. Good catch on the trim wear.
Where I disagree is the value- a good solid car (73/74 RR specifically) with good quarter panels, a nice shiny paint job, a clean interior, that runs good and has some performance mods done, even if a 318 car, in my opinion, is worth 6-8K. There's almost a thousand in wheels and tires.
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...and I think I would be tempted to call it a survivor anyway.
Some light "bolt on" mods and a repaint are acceptable to me (but maybe not others).
Where I disagree is the value- a good solid car (73/74 RR specifically) with good quarter panels, a nice shiny paint job, a clean interior, that runs good and has some performance mods done, even if a 318 car, in my opinion, is worth 6-8K. There's almost a thousand in wheels and tires.
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...and I think I would be tempted to call it a survivor anyway.
Some light "bolt on" mods and a repaint are acceptable to me (but maybe not others).
Bruzilla
Well-Known Member
If it were 5-7 years ago, I would agree with you on the price, but I've been seeing a lot of road runners in this condition selling in the 6-8k range that have 360s and 400s in them, and usually have buckets/console, so why pay that much for a 318 car bench/column car that's apt to have a lot of body issues? Whoever did the paint & body didn't know about external details, so who knows what quality the rest of the work is? Plus I'm guessing that car likely has 220k miles on it, which is a lot of miles if that is the original engine. On the other hand, it is being sold at a dealership, so it's going to cost more than a private sale.
As for the wheels and tires, I've seen those Cragars selling for $200-$250 a set, but what's with those tires? Not only are they el cheapo off brand but they've got three different ones on there.
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I have seen stripe delete cars with just the running bird decal on the C pillar, but the decal is placed in the same area it would be if the stripes were installed, not low and forward like these are. I may stand corrected on one count though. Looking at the pictures Doubleclutch posted of his GTX, it looks like it has the road runner lettering just below the lower edge of the roof, but I can't be sure.
As for the wheels and tires, I've seen those Cragars selling for $200-$250 a set, but what's with those tires? Not only are they el cheapo off brand but they've got three different ones on there.
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I have seen stripe delete cars with just the running bird decal on the C pillar, but the decal is placed in the same area it would be if the stripes were installed, not low and forward like these are. I may stand corrected on one count though. Looking at the pictures Doubleclutch posted of his GTX, it looks like it has the road runner lettering just below the lower edge of the roof, but I can't be sure.
Serious Satellite
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I just remembered the Stripe bird on the pillar column, and some stripe deletes did have the bird decal.
But that Road Runner decal on the pillar, I've never seen. Now, it doesn't mean it didn't come from the dealer that way, the dealers did a lot of stuff that the factory wouldn't do at the buyer's request. It could be that the original buyer wanted that on there... who knows.
But that Road Runner decal on the pillar, I've never seen. Now, it doesn't mean it didn't come from the dealer that way, the dealers did a lot of stuff that the factory wouldn't do at the buyer's request. It could be that the original buyer wanted that on there... who knows.
Bruzilla
Well-Known Member
The car's been repainted, so no dealer did any of that. I'm also guessing those hood pins were add ons too. Whoever bought that car was cheap. They bought the cheapest drivetrain and interior, and deleted the stripes, so I don't see them popping for the upgraded trim that included hood pins. I'm guessing whoever put the four barrel and chrome valve covers on also put the hood pins on.
I'm also guessing those hood pins were add ons too. Whoever bought that car was cheap. They bought the cheapest drivetrain and interior, and deleted the stripes, so I don't see them popping for the upgraded trim that included hood pins. I'm guessing whoever put the four barrel and chrome valve covers on also put the hood pins on.wags70ss
Well-Known Member
That all sounds like good advice. Fortunately for me I have 35 years of experience as a mechanic & have a pretty good idea how to tell if it is 22K or 122K. I am just unsure of the problem areas to look for on this car, but you guys have enlightened me considerably.
As I stated, my purchase agreement is contingent on a full inspection by me. I am paying a garage in the area $100 to put it on a lift & check the mechanicals. They have agreed to allow me to inspect the car on the lift.
If it turns out to be a 122K car, I will pass. I am only interested if it has the appearance of a 22K car. We will see what I find upon inspection.
As I stated, my purchase agreement is contingent on a full inspection by me. I am paying a garage in the area $100 to put it on a lift & check the mechanicals. They have agreed to allow me to inspect the car on the lift.
If it turns out to be a 122K car, I will pass. I am only interested if it has the appearance of a 22K car. We will see what I find upon inspection.
jessipup
Well-Known Member
Keep in mind that you should not get stuck on thst 22 number
weather it be 22, 122, 222 or what ever. Having worked on my dash anumber of times I found the speedo increadably easy to any number you choose. Now I can reset in far less time than it takes to pull the dash
weather it be 22, 122, 222 or what ever. Having worked on my dash anumber of times I found the speedo increadably easy to any number you choose. Now I can reset in far less time than it takes to pull the dash
Bruzilla
Well-Known Member
I spent close to a year looking for my current 74 and saw a lot of cars, and this car looks to me like a well wrung out driver that someone fixed up the body on, put a fresh coat of paint on it, and put it up for sale. Most sellers are honest about the mileage but some will swear the odo is correct even when the interior is full of tells that the car has been driven for decades.
73frostmistsatellite
Well-Known Member
Looks like a nice car. Unless you are just hung up on the mileage I wouldn't worry too much. Personally I bet it is 122,000. My main concern would be the body. Make sure it is solid and not bondo. As stated some of the stickers may be wrong. The one just below the vinyl would have been a standing bird over the metal road runner. The wing wasn't an option.
Like I said just make sure the body is truly solid. Some may want to lowball the value but by the time patch panels etc. get added on a different car the investment jumps way up. My 73 satellite is optioned very similar and in great shape those who think they could find one for $4000 go for it ,you wouldn't get mine for that.
Like I said just make sure the body is truly solid. Some may want to lowball the value but by the time patch panels etc. get added on a different car the investment jumps way up. My 73 satellite is optioned very similar and in great shape those who think they could find one for $4000 go for it ,you wouldn't get mine for that.
Bruzilla
Well-Known Member
There's a difference between low balling and offering the current market price. Lots of guys just don't seem to get that our cars are no longer commanding the prices they used to. Look at this Satellite Sebring Plus that the young man was just selling for just $4k http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/mopar...-Satellite-Sebring-Plus-needs-to-be-sold-asap!!!! Same drivetrain but much more desireable interior, original paint, and more of a true survivor for 1/4 the price of the subject car.
73frostmistsatellite
Well-Known Member
No doubt 12k may be stretching it on the blue car but it appears very straight, solid, and original for the most part. I wouldn't use that red car as a benchmark either. While that red one looks solid obviously many liberties were take that devalue that car. You can see dings in trim as well as rattle can creativity. It is also about location. You won't find many old Mopars in my location with any reasonable pricing. I'd think the blue car barring any major body issues is easily a 6500-7500 car. You couldn't buy one and really have it painted by a shop for that much.
old tired rebel
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Can I ask if the data tag is correct for the car or was it changed? I am wondering if it matches the vin on the dash and would it make it a rebody that is incorrect or a poorly done clone?
wags70ss
Well-Known Member
I just replied to that one too. I like that car so if its a better deal then I will take it.
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I am really not worried about the decals & cosmetic stuff too much. Im guessing whoever painted it didnt want the decals on it. That is an easy fix. He has the build sheet so I assume I can tell if it was supposed to have them or not. It looks to me like someone maybe found a low mileage car & decided to restore it & make it run a little better with the bolt-ons, then lost interest or ran out of money. The reason I am interested is if it is a 22K car, I can finish it up & make it a complete restored car with a hot rod flair. My wife spend most of her time (and money) as a teenager building a duster hot rod, then her boyfriend took it when they broke up & sold it, so Im hoping this with make a sutable replacement, but I want it to be a rust free car. If it truely has 22K on it then it should be rust free & I know what to look for to ensure that it is, thanks in part to you all. If she doesnt like it, I will spend a couple grand finishing it, then park it in my garage until the price doubles or triples & sell it. Either way I plan to come out ahead if it is what he says it is. I asked him if it was 22K original miles & he could not verify that, but if I know what to look for, I think it can be proven very easily. A thourough inspection will tell the tale.
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By the way, is there anyone in the Omaha Nebraska area that wants to do an appraisal on it this Saturday when I am there? I will pay you if you want to do it. It would be great to have a MOPAR nut look it over for me. LOL
Ron 73
Deceased, But not forgotton
I wondered about it myself Rebel, But if a clone, i think he would have gone a bit further to actually make it look like a RR, Check some VIN numbers on it, dashboard, door, anywhere else that has one, if its a real RR the VIN will start out RM.. Im not going to read thru this all again right now but if you like the car, its a real one, if its in your range you can afford, in good shape, grab it! and then enjoy it..
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