An inconvenient truth

[Jcharger]

By and large, the scientists I know check and recheck and believe that their reputation depends on their integrity. This is a different mentality than in some professions. I still maintain that the majority of those who have examined the data are in agreement that climate change is overwhelmingly supported by it and that a strong connection to human activity can be made. This does not mean there are not other factors at play, but those have also been discussed.

 

[furryfrog]

Sad, but true. At least I can sleep at night. I am sure that some scientists lie/cheat for whatever reason....for pride, to keep their job, etc. I "wish" I could say that all scientists are honest, but that's not true. There are certainly people in the world who don't care who they hurt. Sad, isn't it?

It is sad, lots of people suffering because of it.

 

[Budnicks]

dumb it down for a few
it's the sun stupid
our relationship in orbit to it
it's cycles & solar flares/bursts (or radiation) etc. etc. etc.

it's called weather, it's ever changing & ever evolving
JUST like the earth always does & always has

to over simplify it,
as it was explained to me, by a great meteorologist
so called "climate expert", that wasn't on the govt. dole or any grants
funded to skew his findings
hell most of our weather in the USA is from either Africa
dry-lands/deserts in the north cause warming of the air
then the waters over the equator
& the air stream carries it to our borders
most all of our hurricanes originate from there
or the artic down bursts in the air stream from the vast cold north
or from the Pacific
heating & cooling cycles of our vast huge ocean currents
something like 70% of the earth is covered by them
effects US far more, than green house gases or burning gasoline or coal does

it's also a shitload of methane gases
that we have absolutely no control over
in lakes, oceans, forests, rotting vegetation, fields etc.
even the volcanoes all over the pacific rim,
Alaska, New Zealand, Hawaii etc.
effect our climate spews C02 or methane
or any of the other multitudes of natural occurring green house gases
we have absolutely no control over, what so ever
or the flatulences/methane farts of dairy cows
there's 1,000's 'if not millions of reasons'
other than man made caused propaganda

man is a mere spec/cause on the chain of events

----------------------------------------------------------

overly simplified
this guy is a douchebag, TV personality
but occasionally has valid points


but here he is again
doing the very thing he argued against in the 1st video
alarmist GW CC, fear-mongering, (L) doomsday BS,

too small of a sample study, doesn't make it real or true
they need to prove it & duplicate the results
not just theory or conjecture

 

[idrivemopar]

I just think its funny that no matter what report you look at, it always blames people and human pollution as the cause of "Climate Change", and never do they include all the carbon released from forest fires, volcanoes, or just the natural release from the oceans and decaying plant material, etc.

Secondly, the term "Climate Change" is an oxymoron, the climate is always going to change, it started changing the minute the earth formed and will keep changing after humans are long gone, as I stated previously the climate is different depending on how you define the climate period, a climate period of 2 years will be more drastic than one of say 10 or 20 years.

Its all silly. Besides, its also the buzzword of the current decade. What happened to the crying Indian talking about pollution, the hole in the ozone, acid rain, it used to be that sulfur dioxide was the worst green house gas, but then then finally global warming and the blame on CO2 came into play. Well, they all have disappeared and are superseded by Climate Change, because that just fits the current narrative of the alarmists and panderers! Don't get me wrong, I believe in being a good steward of the planet, but lets at least figure things out properly and not politically before we jump to conclusion!

 

[WileERobby]

The earth has had polar ice caps for only a relatively short period of time, and only a few times. We are now in the last era of the last ice age, of which the earth has been warming for millions of years since, so the polar ice melting is a natural occurrence. So, everybody, run fast to higher ground, and perch your tents at the highest mountain peaks !

 

[Jcharger]

Some of what was just said is partly correct, but it misses the point. Some of it is just plain propaganda and fear mongering (but in the opposite sense to the way it was used).

Weather on a global or regional scale and integrated over time is climate. The sun is a main driver of climate because the amount of energy from the sun per square meter is much greater than the amounts from other sources. The atmosphere contains gases like water, carbon dioxide, and methane that drive the greenhouse effect and vapors and aerosols that also affect the energy available to drive climate. All of this is natural. All is a balance, and all changes at some level. This has happened and will happen.

What has been recognized is that the changes in climate (mostly temperature, but other things as well) are occurring in ways that we are not able to explain with these natural factors but that are straightforward to explain if we take human activity into account. This is the human element of climate change. Some say it is presumptuous of us to assume we control climate. We don't. But is it presumptuous to say that we have no affect on it?

All I have said, and it is not fear mongering is that there is overwhelming evidence that climate is changing, that strong evidence suggests the cause of the perturbation of the natural order is human activity. I have also written that climate scientists are not equivocal on it. The majority share this perspective. That is also published.

There also have been predictions made a long time ago (now 30 years ago) that bear out what I have described as a human impact such as this plot that I made and described with the old predictions and the recent (publicly available) data on it.

There were a few minor mistakes in the last few posts. The Ozone depleting chemicals and SO2 are different issue from climate change. And the reason those have gone away is because of successful international and national regulations that were put in place.

Ozone interacts with short wavelength solar radiation and is destroyed by catalytic cycles in involving products from chemistry involving CFC's The regulation of CFCs slowed and then started to reverse the effects of ozone loss.

SO2 oxidizes to form SO3 which then hydrates by reaction with water to form H2SO4. H2SO4 is a strong acid that you have experience with if you have ever rubbed your nose or eyes after handling a leaky car battery. H2SO4 acidified the rain, and in areas where the rocks and rock dust (aerosols) couldn't neutralize it, the streams an lakes, which ended up creating a situation that impacted crops and killed (even higher animals). Regulations in the form of smoke stack scrubbers also slowed and started to revers this problem in the US. If you want to see something cool scroll through the link to the pdf on the NADP web page https://nadp.slh.wisc.edu/maplib/ani/Hplus_ani.pdf If you go to China, they have big issues with Sulfate and sulfuric acid.

The short term impact of volcanoes is formation of sulfuric acid aerosols high in the atmosphere where they reflect light. There is a long term supply of CO2 and other gases, and while these are contributed by big events, the biggest supply of these is what is known as quiescent degassing (like in Yellowstone). The big events though can inject gas and dust high in the atmosphere which has other effects, like cooling.

It is important to discuss these things. If the evidence points some other direction, I will change my tune, but for now, the evidence overwhelmingly supports a change in the natural climate levels (climate change) and also strongly supports a role for human activities such as industry, agriculture, flying and to a very very very small extent driving our B bodies. Humanity decides what to do with it via discussions of policy, but changing the science is a different matter.

 

[Richard Cranium]

And please don't bring weed into it. My daughter just got her card and says it fixes all sorts of things.

Don't tell me, she found out all its cures on the internet.

 

[PurpleBeeper]

Funny, you didn't even have time to view my posts until you commented. Sounds like your mind is already made up, that's cool, part of the human condition called confirmation bias. Threads like this are interesting, almost like a conversation for the deaf, each of us leaving,feeling more strongly about our opinions we had before even venturing into this thread.

I am not going to take what you say at face value, just because your so emotionally connected to your opinion. That argument is old and hollow.

Hmmm.... well, I did take the time to watch both of your videos. They come from a "conspiracy dude" named Corbett.... even a conspiracy about WWI.... USA never landed on the Moon, the Earth is flat, the USA conspired to kill John F Kennedy....yeah, that guy

 

[PurpleBeeper]

OK guys, let's try a COMPLETELY different approach... please, bear with me. Let's assume the following:
a. Man has had little/no impact on climate change
b. Climate change is just a natural part of the Earth's climate cycle (I actually believe this to some extent)

OK, now do "most" of you agree that if you melt ice, you get water?

Question: Even if global climate change is "normal", do you want Louisville, Kentucky to be a coastal city? (not picking on any one city) If water level goes up, low lying land will be under water.

 

[PurpleBeeper]

I just think its funny that no matter what report you look at, it always blames people and human pollution as the cause of "Climate Change"

Dude....I honestly don't think we should feel "guilty". I mean, none of this was known or understood (by most anyway) until just the last few years. Whether man-caused or naturally-occurring doesn't matter in my mind. We know about the issues & we know of at least "something" we can do about it....why not do it?

I'm willing to pay an extra $5/year to put scrubbers on coal plants. I'm willing to pay an extra $10/year to build more solar power stations. It doesn't bother me a bit if the ultra-rich people who own power plants only get to have one yacht instead of two.

 

[Dipstick]

And then there's folks like me who sincerely believe that man is destroying the Earth but don't give a damn because I won't be around to suffer the consequences.

 

[44070dart]

Only thing I can say is I live in a Buffalo NY suburb and we had over sixty 80* days this summer. Six in the 90's. Yes, Buffalo NY. The summers have been warmer than I ever remember for this area. Seems like a lot of people much more intelligent than most, have a point. We can debate why, but I think the jury is in and things have changed here and elsewhere throughout the world..

We may not feel guilty for something we didn't understand, BUT if we continue to deny and go on as we have, our grand children may hold us guilty for not acting, when so many told us to.

 

[ws23jrt]

Every form of life on earth has an "effect" on its surroundings. They all are "natural" and fighting for their individual space. Humans are just as natural as any other life form.

Sometimes a natural form of life will grow in numbers to a point where a mass die-off happens as a consequence. Like lemmings or locusts for examples.
--Humans -apparently- are tending in a similar direction. A natural balance IS in our future.
--Since humans have an extra tool (being clever --or not) they/we are just kicking the can of regaining balance down the road a bit.
--We are reproducing and feeding our selves out of our home.

IMO our efforts to -change the climate- are as misguided as any rumor/assumptions tend to be.- The world used to be flat. Now it is not. Did the world -morph- as learning happened?

BTW--the majority of the northern ice cap is floating on water. If it melted it would have no effect on sea level.

On another personal thought--What is to fear from a warming of our planet?--Why is this something to fear. Consider the potentially lush real estate it could open up for humans to continue to spread to.

 

[Richard Cranium]

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91894873



The rising ground in Gustavus is a symptom of a more momentous event that took place in nearby Glacier Bay. When English explorer George Vancouver visited southeast Alaska in 1794, the fjord we think of today as Glacier Bay was the site of a giant sheet of ice, more than 60 miles long. There was no bay — just ice.

But over the next two centuries, something astounding happened: The ice melted, and fast. (While this is the fastest glacial retreat ever documented, it's not thought to be caused by man-made global warming.)

 

[Brandy]

You know, this gave me a CRAZY idea...but then again, at one time is was "crazy" to think humans could fly. We have a lot of very clever people + scientists/engineers on this site, so who knows?

Now, the CRAZY idea....what if we could intentionally "pollute" the air (or upper atmosphere) during solar maximums & then "clean" the air during solar minimums? That wouldn't stop hurricanes or floods altogether, but we could sort of "smooth out" the Earth's climate so weather is more consistent.....crazy, I know....just a thought. OK guys, anyone have an idea?

I say that we do not interfere with Mother Nature. She has unknown numbers of factors that contribute to each and every part of our environment. One day we are going to unwittingly change something that will cascade into wiping our smug asses out.

 

[PurpleBeeper]

I say that we do not interfere with Mother Nature. She has unknown numbers of factors that contribute to each and every part of our environment. One day we are going to unwittingly change something that will cascade into wiping our smug asses out.

You make a very good point.

 

[mopar 3 B]

You know, I thought about this last night. These details are probably not that accurate, but there's a volcano called "Krakatoa" (sp?) that erupted in the late 1800's (?) on the other side of the world. It put so much crap uphave in our atmosphere that even in the United States, summer just didn't come one year....seriously...it stayed cold the entire year. I might have to look up that story again.

I read the story. It stayed cold but not continues winter. Even today it would make for a hard life if this were to happen again. I believe that volcano was some were in the pacific.

 

[JB400]

I think the point is, we have no actual idea of what is going on with our planet. Whatever is the cause of the i e caps melting and the temperature swings makes some people feel helpless and want to start pointing fingers. Realisticly, we don't know how Earth's orbit around the sun has changed, how the sun itself has changed, or even how Earth's wobble has changed over time.

In the meantime, someone's using this thing called climate change to cause mass histeria and to make a buck off of it.

 

[mopar 3 B]

Simple over population and known fact. Put 1500 chickens in a 30x60 building and it will have to be cooled year around. Reduce the number of chickens and the building will have to be heated in the winter time to keep them from freezing. So this is my and still existing conclusion. If climate change bothers you stop breathing out hot air and reduce your body heat. They rest of us will thank you for your efforts.

 

[furryfrog]

Hmmm.... well, I did take the time to watch both of your videos. They come from a "conspiracy dude" named Corbett.... even a conspiracy about WWI.... USA never landed on the Moon, the Earth is flat, the USA conspired to kill John F Kennedy....yeah, that guy

That post was not in response to you purple. Corbett looks at many issues, that are "popular" He doesn't think the earth is flat by the way. The documentary about WW1 is very interesting also.
So as a scientist, what do you think of the "data" The IPCC uses ( and Al Gore) to come to their conclusion? Ok, so you are trying to discredit the presenter instead of his presentation, what about Dr judith Curry herself on Fox news, A climatologist who gave up her tenure because of this issue?



Here is ABC news quickly mentioning climategate. Are you still comfortable putting your faith, money, and the fate of your family into the IPCC?