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Any foundation experts out there?

747mopar

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Got a question regarding a garage foundation, what are the best options for doing a garage foundation. I really want to avoid laying block (severely herniated disc) and want a good solid footing. I checked into renting forms to pour the footer walls but it cost as much as it would be to buy the block???? My original plan was to go at least 3ft deep, pour a 16" wide footer then pour an 8" wall on top but as I said renting the forms is pricey. I started doing some research on garage foundations and came across the monolithic poured foundations, some of which claim it doesn't have to be that deep. I live in Ohio so 36" has always been the rule of thumb, is that necessary? All kinds of things play into this especially the soil and it's ability to displace water. Regardless the monolithic approach would be much easier on my back even if I still went 36" deep. Just exploring options that will allow me to do it myself without ending up laid up for months from another flare up. Thanks
 
I'm no expert, but I do stay at the Holiday Inn Express frequently. lol.
Seriously, check the garage journal forum for lots of discussion. My original plan was not monolithic, but was to pour the foundation using dug earth lined with 2" thick foam and filled with rebar to get around the issue of form rental. I ended up just pouring a base for a block foundation and a couple buddies who own a masonry business ended up doing the work for a great price.
 
Th
I'm no expert, but I do stay at the Holiday Inn Express frequently. lol.
Seriously, check the garage journal forum for lots of discussion. My original plan was not monolithic, but was to pour the foundation using dug earth lined with 2" thick foam and filled with rebar to get around the issue of form rental. I ended up just pouring a base for a block foundation and a couple buddies who own a masonry business ended up doing the work for a great price.
Right now that's the most likely avenue I'll be going but hate to call in the troops, hate asking for help. I'll check that forum out, thanks.
 
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You may want to look at buying plywood for this. If you lightly spray the plywood with some used motor oil after you have it up this will keep the cement from sticking to it. Once you peel off the forms you can scrape off any excess and reuse plywood somewhere else that is non cosmetic. You will probably need wall ties and cam locks to go this route, but renting cam locks may be cheaper route with plywood forms.
 
You may want to look at buying plywood for this. If you lightly spray the plywood with some used motor oil after you have it up this will keep the cement from sticking to it. Once you peel off the forms you can scrape off any excess and reuse plywood somewhere else that is non cosmetic. You will probably need wall ties and cam locks to go this route, but renting cam locks may be cheaper route with plywood forms.
That's another option I've been contemplating, cost as much as forms but if you need plywood anyhow then it's really free forms.
 
While the cost of renting the forms may be equal to the cost of the block, it's way easier and faster to set up forms and then blow in a bunch of concrete than it is to lay a block foundation. Plus it takes a lot less experience and skill to get it right. And IMHO, avoid the plywood because it's thin, weak, and takes a ton of cutting and then reinforcing to get it right. For this reason, most masons avoid the plywood and use 2x10s or 2x12s for forming. Plus, it's generally so full of oil and concrete residue that I just can't imagine putting it to any real use, so you'll be filling a dumpster with it. You may be able to sell the 2x forms locally to a contractor, however.

Most times you figure the footing dimensions, dig the trench 3ft deep (or whatever your frost depth is) with a backhoe bucket that is (hopefully) just the right size, then pour the footing to the width of the backhoe bucket (i.e. width of the trench) right to the top of the trench. This costs a lot more in concrete but is way easier, especially on those narrow little footings you're likely to need. Once poured, partially sink a well oiled 2x4 keyway down the center of the footing right where your wall will go. Then pull the 2x4 once the concrete firms up but before it cures. If local code requires rebar to connect footer to wall, it gets a bit more complex. Also, if the ground isn't level and you need to step the footing or if part of the foundation wall has to support some dirt, that also complicates matters.

Once the footing cures, form up the wall over the keyway, add whatever rebar you need and pour the wall, making certain that the top of the wall is level. Then trowel finish the top of the wall and sink your bottom plate anchors.

That's what I would do, anyway. I spent a lot of years as a civil engineer / construction mgr for big residential and commercial builders. This is before I semi-retired (sorta) and went into teaching.

Another thing to think about is this - of all you need is a 8" thick footer, you could just pour it 8" thick then start the wall on that, basically 2' below grade. This saves money in concrete but is a royal pita for the narrow little footings you'll likely need for your garage, because the trench is so narrow you have no room to work when forming. Plus this requires a much taller form, which is where renting forms comes into play (or you're stuck building really tall forms). So money saved in concrete goes to renting forms. This is why most times you will pour to the top of the trench. This way, you only need a short foundation wall, so forming with 2x12's may work for you.

Just my $0.02
 
I am satisfied with the direction I went using block, however, if I had to do it over, I would have poured them. In hindsight, I feel it's a much better, stronger, structurally superior way to go.
 
I'm not sure of the terrain and soil contents where your are in Ohio or the tempeture issues you may but I've done a lot of commercial electrical underground construction in central texas, rocky limestone w/ 3" of topsoil and here on the gulf coast which is usually 1' of topsoil and 6' of clay... That being said 99% of the foundation forms above grade were formed with plywood reinforced with. 2x6 shoring/stakes about every 3 feet....
Those formsetters are some bad dudes...that is some hard work, those boys would stake out the perimeter of a 50k sqft facility and swing a sledge for two weeks all day long...nothing else...
 
Id listen to HT413 and would never use plywood. Don't know the code were you live but if your back is a issue the only real way to go regardless is to hire a form guy and be done with it. There is no money to be saved doing it yourself.
 
Id listen to HT413 and would never use plywood. Don't know the code were you live but if your back is a issue the only real way to go regardless is to hire a form guy and be done with it. There is no money to be saved doing it yourself.
Haha, that's so far from the truth Steve. I was debt free at the age 35 because I do everything myself including building my own home, cars, cabinets, plumbing, electrical, etc so yes doing things yourself always saves a ton of money as long as you take the time to make sure you do it right. As far as the plywood forms go they work perfectly fine when reinforced and braced, the question is are they in any condition to reuse? No disrespect meant I just hate hearing people say hire someone to do it for you, it isn't in my blood.
 
I'm not sure of the terrain and soil contents where your are in Ohio or the tempeture issues you may but I've done a lot of commercial electrical underground construction in central texas, rocky limestone w/ 3" of topsoil and here on the gulf coast which is usually 1' of topsoil and 6' of clay... That being said 99% of the foundation forms above grade were formed with plywood reinforced with. 2x6 shoring/stakes about every 3 feet....
Those formsetters are some bad dudes...that is some hard work, those boys would stake out the perimeter of a 50k sqft facility and swing a sledge for two weeks all day long...nothing else...
I built the first 3ft of my home (above grade) using reinforced plywood forms to build a poured-stone wall using stones rounded up from the property so building forms is a familiar area to me and yes it's a rough job. In that particular case I was mixing my own concrete so only 4 forms were needed, by the time you filled the last 8 ft the first set of forms could be moved and on you went. My property (at least where the garage is going) is rough digging, sandstone everywhere! Thanks
 
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Hire a contractor, save your back!
Over the coarse of the last several years I've finally figured out my limitations, I can't handle long periods of bending over and that's about it. If I can stay upright I can work like a dog so yes laying block is all kinds of bad for me. A contractor is out of the question, I'm fortunate to have good friends and family that know how to get things done. Thanks
 
While the cost of renting the forms may be equal to the cost of the block, it's way easier and faster to set up forms and then blow in a bunch of concrete than it is to lay a block foundation. Plus it takes a lot less experience and skill to get it right. And IMHO, avoid the plywood because it's thin, weak, and takes a ton of cutting and then reinforcing to get it right. For this reason, most masons avoid the plywood and use 2x10s or 2x12s for forming. Plus, it's generally so full of oil and concrete residue that I just can't imagine putting it to any real use, so you'll be filling a dumpster with it. You may be able to sell the 2x forms locally to a contractor, however.

Most times you figure the footing dimensions, dig the trench 3ft deep (or whatever your frost depth is) with a backhoe bucket that is (hopefully) just the right size, then pour the footing to the width of the backhoe bucket (i.e. width of the trench) right to the top of the trench. This costs a lot more in concrete but is way easier, especially on those narrow little footings you're likely to need. Once poured, partially sink a well oiled 2x4 keyway down the center of the footing right where your wall will go. Then pull the 2x4 once the concrete firms up but before it cures. If local code requires rebar to connect footer to wall, it gets a bit more complex. Also, if the ground isn't level and you need to step the footing or if part of the foundation wall has to support some dirt, that also complicates matters.

Once the footing cures, form up the wall over the keyway, add whatever rebar you need and pour the wall, making certain that the top of the wall is level. Then trowel finish the top of the wall and sink your bottom plate anchors.

That's what I would do, anyway. I spent a lot of years as a civil engineer / construction mgr for big residential and commercial builders. This is before I semi-retired (sorta) and went into teaching.

Another thing to think about is this - of all you need is a 8" thick footer, you could just pour it 8" thick then start the wall on that, basically 2' below grade. This saves money in concrete but is a royal pita for the narrow little footings you'll likely need for your garage, because the trench is so narrow you have no room to work when forming. Plus this requires a much taller form, which is where renting forms comes into play (or you're stuck building really tall forms). So money saved in concrete goes to renting forms. This is why most times you will pour to the top of the trench. This way, you only need a short foundation wall, so forming with 2x12's may work for you.

Just my $0.02
Thanks HT, Good pointers. I wish the company I bought my basement forming system off of was still around, the factory was 2 miles from my house!!!! Talk about sweet, 4 of us put the whole form up (rebar included) in an afternoon and poured it in 3 hours the next day. It was like being 6 years old playing with Lego's again and very easy to work with. I'll see if I've got a pic of it going up.
 
I am satisfied with the direction I went using block, however, if I had to do it over, I would have poured them. In hindsight, I feel it's a much better, stronger, structurally superior way to go.
Love my basement, it's poured 10" thick with 2" of foam inside and out.
 
This is how I had imagined doing it.

det12garageftg.jpg


This one has me interested, a bit more concrete but the truck rolls in and pours it... Done!

4_20050915160322_slab.gif


This is what I've seen as a "garage foundation"??? Just doesn't seam right being that shallow??? An insulated 36" deep footer I would think would keep more cold from getting under the floor?

monolithic.jpg


So my real question and reason for this thread is, what do you think of the footer and floor being poured as 1? Would the floor be prone to crack along the footer? Never saw it done like this but would think doing it like in the first pic where the floor could float would be better?

slab_image.png
 
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If you're going with a permit, see what the building codes are for your area. I've had plans in the past and the permit office had other ideas on how they wanted it done.
I take it you're stick building the garage?
 
concrete shrinks so yes it will crack if poured all together
pour footings and frost walls then the floor so the are not attached and the floor can shrink with out cracking
and if hot out keep it wet
 
If you're going with a permit, see what the building codes are for your area. I've had plans in the past and the permit office had other ideas on how they wanted it done.
I take it you're stick building the garage?
Honestly I've never heard of anybody getting a permit for anything around here including when I built our house... I'm perfectly happy that way.:D Stick frame is the plan, I plan on sheeting it in plywood and wrapping it with house wrap so it's super tight. Building it stick frame just makes life easier when it comes time to insulate, drywall, etc.
 
I had a friend go the plywood route thinking he could reuse it elsewhere....which proved to be wrong. It drew a lot of moisture, warped a little and had a lot of concrete stick to it....and was a lot of work to shore up. In the end he had to just dispose of the wood. If it's a draw in costs between the plywood and renting forms....I think the form route would end up saving you some labor and you wouldn't have to deal with the scrap wood.
 
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