Any Ideas on my 440

[benno440]

Hi Guys,
I have a 68 charger with a 76 block 440.

I rebuilt the motor, everything in the engine is new except the stock cast crank and conrods.

Has new bearings throughout, KB stock size pistons & rings, lunati cam, comp cams timing gear, hyd lifters and comp cams pushrods, 440 source ported aluminium heads, comp rockers, 440 source aluminium water pump, melling high volume oil pump, 9 qt milodon oil pan and high flow pickup, tti 1 7/8 headers, msd electric ignition, edelbrock performer rpm intake, 770 holley, 11" billet flywheel, powermaster starter, march serpentine pulley kit.

The engine has only had the cam run in, and has not even seen the road yet,

NOW, my problem, the engine ran perfectly, the compression on all the cylinders were good (around 150-160), oil pressure is good idles around 75 psi, temperature is good thermo fans kick in at 180 degrees and then cools it down, BUT, some reason the engine is extremely tight with all the plugs out it is really hard to crank over as in it feels really tight, AND it blows a shitload of grey smoke out the pipes and by alot i mean it fills up my backyard.

Anyone have any ideas or suggestions, even though it seems really tight it still runs alright sort of, but too scared to start it anymore as it wasnt this tight when i first started it.

 

[mopar367]

If the engine is already out of the car take the oil pan off and have a look. That would be where I would start. Inspect a few bearings.

 

[Pops1967GTX]

Did you check oil level & color of oil? Blueish/gray smoke is a sign an engine is burning oil....Are you getting gray smoke out of PVC gronment ? Remove & check...that's another tell....It should turn freely with plugs out...bigger the cam and the higher rate springs will make it harder to turn....Is the engine tight when it warmed up,? Or Cold, it loosenes up and you could turn the engine easily?

 

[benno440]

Yeh checked the oil its beautiful and clean, the coolants also clean, and yes it is a blueish grey smoke blowing out but it also smells alot like fuel as well as oil.
it seemed to of just gotten tight lately it wasnt like this when i first assembled it and yes it does it when its warm, i am going to pull the rocker covers off tonite and check the rockers maybe a arm is loose and not releasing pressure in the ylinder... maybe, i will also check the big end bearings

 

[benno440]

also there is no smoke coming out of pcv, but oil level has dropped to the add line since blowing smoke.

 

[70rr-brian]

Try a leakdown test. Sounds like the rings may not have seated right.

 

[dryheat]

I once put the two compression rings in upside down on old Ford motor and had the same smoke symptoms ... I was consistent though as I did it to all 8 cylinders.

Also ... make sure that all the valve seals in your head.

 

[godfatherofchry]

sounds to me like sum broken rings and or broken pistons.........Artie

 

[tpodwdog]

heres a stupid question for ya....when you built this engine, did you use PLASTIGAUGE? If you did, did you remove it ? ( yeah yeah , i know you really dont have to remove it coz its oil soluble). but it could cause a problem if not removed. just a thought.

 

[Meep-Meep]

I see you used KB pistons. Are they the hypereutectic ones? If so, those require a wide ring gap for the top ring only. There is a multiplier used to calculate the ring gap and I think the end result will be about .025" instead of the more common .016" or so. If you left them at the small out of the box dimension the ring gap can close up and it will get really ugly really quick.

 

[IQ52]

How many ft-lbs does it take to turn the engine over with the plugs out. Then remove the rockers and shafts, how much torque? If it is still extremely hard you have isolated it to the bottom end. You'll have to tear the engine down and fix it.

If it turns easily its the valves, guides or rocker assembly.

 

[Garys1969RR]

Question: What amount of torque should it take to turn a properly built bottom end? With out the valve train being a factor.... I once built a 396 Chevy, and each time I put in another piston, it took ALOT more torque to turn it. Time I got all 8 installed, it was taking 120 ft lbs just to turn it over! Thought that was way too much. But after break in, it ran really good.

 

[Garys1969RR]

If your old motor burned oil, the inside of the ex pipes will be full of oil residue. Then the new motor will appear to be smoking as the old oil "crud" burns out. I've seen this happen more than once. After several days running, it stops smoking after the pipes clean out. Good Luck

 

[MoparBill]

How many ft-lbs does it take to turn the engine over with the plugs out. Then remove the rockers and shafts, how much torque? If it is still extremely hard you have isolated it to the bottom end. You'll have to tear the engine down and fix it.

If it turns easily its the valves, guides or rocker assembly.

Great advice here- easy way to narrow down the problem.

 

[IQ52]

Question: What amount of torque should it take to turn a properly built bottom end? With out the valve train being a factor.... I once built a 396 Chevy, and each time I put in another piston, it took ALOT more torque to turn it. Time I got all 8 installed, it was taking 120 ft lbs just to turn it over! Thought that was way too much. But after break in, it ran really good.

The last 440/496 street motor we built was 26 ft-lbs for the shortblock.

 

[Garys1969RR]

I noticed you used stock size pistons and rings. Was the block new? What type of hone did you use on the cylinder walls? How much piston to wall clearance do you have? The cyl wall finish is very important for proper ring seating. A used block must be honed, to remove the glaze and allow for ring break in.

 

[has2bmopar]

I noticed you listed a 440 Source water pump, which is likely fine, what isn't fine is if you used their aluminum water pump housing. They are extremely restrictive to the right bank of your engine from having a very poor internal casting. Even worse than what you can notice visually is deeper inside. This would not likely affect your guage/sending unit as the rest of your system will be flowing fine, just the right side of the block will suffer, and it could be possible that these cylinders may have scored.

I do have pictures of this issue with gaskets in place compared to the Mopar housing, and like I stated before it gets worse internally.

Bearing issues should not have any ties with exhaust smoke.

 

[benno440]

Hi,
No i didnt leave any plastigauge in the engine, i checked the rockers half of them were loose, Would this cause smoke?

I was unaware about the Kb pistons and yes they are the hypereutectic ones.

The engine sat over night and then i started the next day and one of the lifters lost all oil pressure and was ticking loudly after a min or so it came good and the engine does not seem tight anymore, i am confused

I also had all the cylnder bores honed so there should not of been a problem there.

I am actually looking at buying one of the 440 source 440-512 stroker kits just to know that everything will be perfect, as at the moment the only things that arent brand new in the engine is the cast crank and stock conrods

 

[Garys1969RR]

I would run it a little more. And keep a close eye on the oil pressure, temp. etc. Some times these issues work out of the motor, such as the ticking lifter. Did the previous engine smoke? Good luck.

 

[has2bmopar]

Hi,
i checked the rockers half of them were loose, Would this cause smoke?

The engine sat over night and then i started the next day and one of the lifters lost all oil pressure and was ticking loudly after a min or so it came good and the engine does not seem tight anymore, i am confused


I am actually looking at buying one of the 440 source 440-512 stroker kits just to know that everything will be perfect, as at the moment the only things that arent brand new in the engine is the cast crank and stock conrods

The problem with your rockers loosening up is most likely that you did not replace the valve retainers and locks on your 440 Source heads. They are likely pulling the locks deeper into the retainer. These parts are absolute crap and I have learned the springs should really be replaced as well, but the valves should be fine.

I assume that you preload your lifters about .030". Once you replace the 440 Source crap with some Comp or Lunati springs, retainers and locks you should be fine and your rockers should stay in adjustment. Also be aware of clearance issues with your pushrods with these heads, you should have at least .060" throughout the valve travel. I have bought 2 sets of these, so for your own good don't disregard this without checking.

If you are looking at buying a stroker kit be aware that you need the correct pistons with the kit, as the specs are different for any change in stroke.

440 Source, has given me way too much grief, not to refer others to use businesses with a good reputation that carry name-brand parts that also have a good reputation. I would recommend Summit Racing for whatever they have available, and Mancini Racing for your Eagle stroker kits and other Mopar specific parts etc.

The Guy telling you that 440 Source is great, will likey be the guy on the phone at 440 Source, and if there is someone else, just give it time, until their luck runs out when their low budjet parts take a dump.