B/RB mopar Alum.heads

[Geri]

1967coronet440 nailed it!

They are no "out of the box" heads despite what the marketing departments of cylinder head companies claim.
Regardless of what "ready to bolt on" heads you buy. You really need to check them out.


Have folks gambled and done just that? Absolutely.

Is it good practice? Nope!

To the OP. If I was in the market for a more street strip type head, I'd be looking at the trick flow 270's.

I agree - the best parts are just good enough. although even on street engines I tend to overkill.
when the ad says- ready to bolt on, your in trouble. unseated or missing keepers and as stated by another -guide clearances to tight -seized valve and boom. point being- check everything- use known quality machinists you trust.

 

[vintage chromoly]

One of the local machine shop owners has a saying. "If it comes in a box, it's probably going to need work"

Local Holley carb shop (CFM)
Has found brand new carbs with the wrong boosters installed.

I bought a set of Carrillo pistons and rings. One ring was the wrong size.

I bought a set of Crower EDM lifters and one was absent the oiling hole. Found that when washing them in the parts washer prior to assembly.

Friend bought a pair of AFR "ready to run" heads and they had the wrong springs on them and the guides were way too tight.

Check everything!

 

[Bigfoots N Mopars]

My engine builder went through my Trick Flow 270s. The CNC work was excellent, but he “touched them up a little” and portmatched to my Indy Intake. Was waiting for the pushrods last week, just got my Quick Fuel 850 Q series carb Friday and hope to hit the dyno next week. First 2 picks of intake

 

[Geri]

One of the local machine shop owners has a saying. "If it comes in a box, it's probably going to need work"

Local Holley carb shop (CFM)
Has found brand new carbs with the wrong boosters installed.

I bought a set of Carrillo pistons and rings. One ring was the wrong size.

I bought a set of Crower EDM lifters and one was absent the oiling hole. Found that when washing them in the parts washer prior to assembly.

Friend bought a pair of AFR "ready to run" heads and they had the wrong springs on them and the guides were way too tight.

Check everything!

in '74? I bought a Crane RR296 Cam and rollers for my 426 hemi, awesome cam. when I installed it I KNEW I should dial it in as even crane said the locating pin is only a start reference place,don't trust it. but I thought hey- this is crane I trusted the pin. installer without checking
when I took it to the track, it launched like it was going to run 200mph, but about 100 feet out it fell flat. labored to get to the other end in a blistering 12.90 pass. OK now I decided I needed to follow their advice- when done checking the cam was 17 degree's advanced using the pin. I had to move the cam back one full tooth on the chain and a offset sleeve to get it right.
next time out- 9.70s at 144. high gear with this cam felt like low gear with other cams. best cam ever for me.

 

[Mike Gaines]

I know that the Trick Flow Heads (240's and 270's) get a lot of enthusiasm from the guys BUT....Although the CUSTOMER SERVICE at INDY CYLINDER HEAD really SUCKS...I can't see why anyone would use anything but the tried and proven INDY heads.
I purchased the standard port INDY SEZ heads (flowed 290cfm) originally and ran them like that for several months...then a few months ago my local machine shop enlarged them to MAX WEDGE size and also ported them to 335 to 340 cfm. Picked up 3/10's of a second with that upgrade.
Those heads are an important part of my motor build that has propelled my 3580lb Coronet (plus me at 200lb to make a total of 3780lbs) to consistent 10.158 to 10.170 ET's @ 131+mph.
Proof is in the pudding.
Again, I really don't like calling INDY but I would only use their cylinder heads.
You can purchase the INDY heads from Hughes Engines in Illinois for the same price as INDY direct and the guys at Hughes are really great giving you spot on info for what you need and they are pleasant to talk to.
They are doing wonders with the new Edelbrock Max Wedge Heads also.

 

[1967coronet440]

I know that the Trick Flow Heads (240's and 270's) get a lot of enthusiasm from the guys BUT....Although the CUSTOMER SERVICE at INDY CYLINDER HEAD really SUCKS...I can't see why anyone would use anything but the tried and proven INDY heads.
I purchased the standard port INDY SEZ heads (flowed 290cfm) originally and ran them like that for several months...then a few months ago my local machine shop enlarged them to MAX WEDGE size and also ported them to 335 to 340 cfm. Picked up 3/10's of a second with that upgrade.
Those heads are an important part of my motor build that has propelled my 3580lb Coronet (plus me at 200lb to make a total of 3780lbs) to consistent 10.158 to 10.170 ET's @ 131+mph.
Proof is in the pudding.
Again, I really don't like calling INDY but I would only use their cylinder heads.
You can purchase the INDY heads from Hughes Engines in Illinois for the same price as INDY direct and the guys at Hughes are really great giving you spot on info for what you need and they are pleasant to talk to.
They are doing wonders with the new Edelbrock Max Wedge Heads also.

I know that the Trick Flow Heads (240's and 270's) get a lot of enthusiasm from the guys BUT....Although the CUSTOMER SERVICE at INDY CYLINDER HEAD really SUCKS...I can't see why anyone would use anything but the tried and proven INDY heads.
I purchased the standard port INDY SEZ heads (flowed 290cfm) originally and ran them like that for several months...then a few months ago my local machine shop enlarged them to MAX WEDGE size and also ported them to 335 to 340 cfm. Picked up 3/10's of a second with that upgrade.
Those heads are an important part of my motor build that has propelled my 3580lb Coronet (plus me at 200lb to make a total of 3780lbs) to consistent 10.158 to 10.170 ET's @ 131+mph.
Proof is in the pudding.
Again, I really don't like calling INDY but I would only use their cylinder heads.
You can purchase the INDY heads from Hughes Engines in Illinois for the same price as INDY direct and the guys at Hughes are really great giving you spot on info for what you need and they are pleasant to talk to.
They are doing wonders with the new Edelbrock Max Wedge Heads also.

mike, can you enlighten me on the “new max wedge heads” is there a new casting? Thanks

 

[Mike Gaines]

mike, can you enlighten me on the “new max wedge heads” is there a new casting? Thanks

Visit Hughes Engines web site and click on INSTRUCTIONS AND TECH ARTICLES and then click on EDELBROCK HEADS.

 

[Geri]

I know that the Trick Flow Heads (240's and 270's) get a lot of enthusiasm from the guys BUT....Although the CUSTOMER SERVICE at INDY CYLINDER HEAD really SUCKS...I can't see why anyone would use anything but the tried and proven INDY heads.
I purchased the standard port INDY SEZ heads (flowed 290cfm) originally and ran them like that for several months...then a few months ago my local machine shop enlarged them to MAX WEDGE size and also ported them to 335 to 340 cfm. Picked up 3/10's of a second with that upgrade.
Those heads are an important part of my motor build that has propelled my 3580lb Coronet (plus me at 200lb to make a total of 3780lbs) to consistent 10.158 to 10.170 ET's @ 131+mph.
Proof is in the pudding.
Again, I really don't like calling INDY but I would only use their cylinder heads.
You can purchase the INDY heads from Hughes Engines in Illinois for the same price as INDY direct and the guys at Hughes are really great giving you spot on info for what you need and they are pleasant to talk to.
They are doing wonders with the new Edelbrock Max Wedge Heads also.

3/10s is huge improvement for the $$. I haven't seen Indy selling on the internet,I'll look into them.
your experience with them is similar to my experience with Dick Landy. I had purchased the .090 thick head spacers to lower compression,which then required two head gaskets- I couldn't find torque specs for that- I talked with Chrysler direct connection they refereed me to Landy. I called Landy and asked him the proper torque routine for this, he asked-"did you buy the spacers from me"? No-I got them from Chrysler, then why the f**k are you asking me? I told him Chrysler referred me to him as their go to pro, he hung up.

 

[dvw]

There's a difference between an engine assembler, and an engine builder. If you are an assembler you have 3 choices.
1; just bolt it together and hope for the best.
2; take every part to a reputable shop and have it checked..
3; buy the tools, read, and learn from others with experience to become a builder
Doug

 

[Geri]

There's a difference between an engine assembler, and an engine builder. If you are an assembler you have 3 choices.
1; just bolt it together and hope for the best.
2; take every part to a reputable shop and have it checked..
3; buy the tools, read, and learn from others with experience to become a builder
Doug

I have to trust my machinist to do accurate work, but I still verify the dimensions pre assembly, I have never -ever taken an engine built by another and bolt it in and run it, that goes for the nostalgia T/F Donovan 417 hemi, just back from the fuel engine guru, I found several issue with his work, and made them right, still the owner of the car non mechanically inclined thought he was a fuel tuner, the Donovans lasted maybe 2 runs and were toast and back to the machine shop.he had the money but not the brains. in 2000 at the Bakersfield march meet-his "tune on friday qualifying was a blistering 6.49 at 198, (not good at all) melting # 1 piston, typical for him we put in new sleeve,piston and had it back together before going to to the motels for the night. I thought about what he was doing, I got to the track fist and changed some nozzles ,I also lowered the % from his 94% down to 86%
when he got there I told him what I'd done(didn't mention the fuel %) he said I was going to blow up his engine, I replied whats the difference you blow them up every 2 runs anyway AND if what I did blows it up I'll buy you a new Donovan short block . bottom line first run new tune it ran a respectable for year 2K pass of 6.12 at 232, best of all nothing damaged, next pass was 6.09 at 242 (driver was getting confidence he wouldn't be taking another oil bath") we didn't win that weekend BUT we did not damage another part that weekend. I thought we'd turned a big corner with the car- owner called me Monday AM and fired me for"making a tuning decision without his consent or knowledge), even though I told no one other than him what I'd done-his narcissistic ego couldn't handle it.. oh well.

 

[pwDave]

Geri, I have a set of the small port Edelbrock victors on my 509 rb, w/ a old (35yrs) .590 purple, I built mine to cruise the streets with and go to the track once in a while. the build was geared to be all in by about 6200. I wanted the torque to be low and the hp to be between 5500 and 6200, I don't know what the motor makes but seems to be where I wanted it. idles at 900-950 and pulls like gang busters, snow melts and it dries up and off to the track we go to find out. Dave. PS one of the reasons I got the Edelbrocks was the fact that they are NOT chinese, all the pieces on the heads including the alumimnum is USA. Dave.

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

I have to trust my machinist to do accurate work, but I still verify the dimensions pre assembly, I have never -ever taken an engine built by another and bolt it in and run it, that goes for the nostalgia T/F Donovan 417 hemi, just back from the fuel engine guru, I found several issue with his work, and made them right, still the owner of the car non mechanically inclined thought he was a fuel tuner, the Donovans lasted maybe 2 runs and were toast and back to the machine shop.he had the money but not the brains. in 2000 at the Bakersfield march meet-his "tune on friday qualifying was a blistering 6.49 at 198, (not good at all) melting # 1 piston, typical for him we put in new sleeve,piston and had it back together before going to to the motels for the night. I thought about what he was doing, I got to the track fist and changed some nozzles ,I also lowered the % from his 94% down to 86%


when he got there I told him what I'd done(didn't mention the fuel %) he said I was going to blow up his engine, I replied whats the difference you blow them up every 2 runs anyway AND if what I did blows it up I'll buy you a new Donovan short block . bottom line first run new tune it ran a respectable for year 2K pass of 6.12 at 232, best of all nothing damaged, next pass was 6.09 at 242 (driver was getting confidence he wouldn't be taking another oil bath") we didn't win that weekend BUT we did not damage another part that weekend. I thought we'd turned a big corner with the car- owner called me Monday AM and fired me for"making a tuning decision without his consent or knowledge), even though I told no one other than him what I'd done-his narcissistic ego couldn't handle it.. oh well.

Geri,Which car were you tuning on??


There are many aluminum heads on the market these days.Speak with someone like Todd at Marsh performance.He is a vendor for most of these heads and can tell you which is best for your budget.He can also advise what valves,springs,locks and retainers to use.If you can't assemble yourself,he can.
Another great guy for choosing heads is Dwayne Porter. He is an expert on heads and does porting.The heads, cam and valvetrain must be matched package put to give you the best for your money,either one of these guys can help you get where you want to go.Never buy OOTB heads!!!!

 

[Geri]

Geri,Which car were you tuning on??


There are many aluminum heads on the market these days.Speak with someone like Todd at Marsh performance.He is a vendor for most of these heads and can tell you which is best for your budget.He can also advise what valves,springs,locks and retainers to use.If you can't assemble yourself,he can.
Another great guy for choosing heads is Dwayne Porter. He is an expert on heads and does porting.The heads, cam and valvetrain must be matched package put to give you the best for your money,either one of these guys can help you get where you want to go.Never buy OOTB heads!!!!

Dave Smith- Sacramento raceway owners car, at the time it was Smith McLennan and Maher.

 

[Bigfoots N Mopars]

I know that the Trick Flow Heads (240's and 270's) get a lot of enthusiasm from the guys BUT....Although the CUSTOMER SERVICE at INDY CYLINDER HEAD really SUCKS...I can't see why anyone would use anything but the tried and proven INDY heads.
I purchased the standard port INDY SEZ heads (flowed 290cfm) originally and ran them like that for several months...then a few months ago my local machine shop enlarged them to MAX WEDGE size and also ported them to 335 to 340 cfm. Picked up 3/10's of a second with that upgrade.
Those heads are an important part of my motor build that has propelled my 3580lb Coronet (plus me at 200lb to make a total of 3780lbs) to consistent 10.158 to 10.170 ET's @ 131+mph.
Proof is in the pudding.
Again, I really don't like calling INDY but I would only use their cylinder heads.
You can purchase the INDY heads from Hughes Engines in Illinois for the same price as INDY direct and the guys at Hughes are really great giving you spot on info for what you need and they are pleasant to talk to.
They are doing wonders with the new Edelbrock Max Wedge Heads also.

I knew about Indy’s reputation of very poor customer service, so I ordered my intake through Mancini Racing. It was drop shipped from Indy in a box with absolutely no packing materials. It was beat up a little, and the casting was very poor. We were going to port match anyways, and for the low deck max wedge there are no other options. I hope to never use their products again.

 

[gtxracer]

I have to trust my machinist to do accurate work, but I still verify the dimensions pre assembly, I have never -ever taken an engine built by another and bolt it in and run it, that goes for the nostalgia T/F Donovan 417 hemi, just back from the fuel engine guru, I found several issue with his work, and made them right, still the owner of the car non mechanically inclined thought he was a fuel tuner, the Donovans lasted maybe 2 runs and were toast and back to the machine shop.he had the money but not the brains. in 2000 at the Bakersfield march meet-his "tune on friday qualifying was a blistering 6.49 at 198, (not good at all) melting # 1 piston, typical for him we put in new sleeve,piston and had it back together before going to to the motels for the night. I thought about what he was doing, I got to the track fist and changed some nozzles ,I also lowered the % from his 94% down to 86%
when he got there I told him what I'd done(didn't mention the fuel %) he said I was going to blow up his engine, I replied whats the difference you blow them up every 2 runs anyway AND if what I did blows it up I'll buy you a new Donovan short block . bottom line first run new tune it ran a respectable for year 2K pass of 6.12 at 232, best of all nothing damaged, next pass was 6.09 at 242 (driver was getting confidence he wouldn't be taking another oil bath") we didn't win that weekend BUT we did not damage another part that weekend. I thought we'd turned a big corner with the car- owner called me Monday AM and fired me for"making a tuning decision without his consent or knowledge), even though I told no one other than him what I'd done-his narcissistic ego couldn't handle it.. oh well.

Geri, it sounds like something Dave Smith would do. He always has been an arrogant ***, having met him in the early 70's when he was still running the track at Sacramento. At that time he always had a pistol on his hip and his attitude was, this is my track. His brother Warren was the track manager, great guy, and later was the Division 7 director. My thoughts...

 

[Geri]

Geri, it sounds like something Dave Smith would do. He always has been an arrogant ***, having met him in the early 70's when he was still running the track at Sacramento. At that time he always had a pistol on his hip and his attitude was, this is my track. His brother Warren was the track manager, great guy, and later was the Division 7 director. My thoughts...

- you are partially correct Warren is (was) no relation to Dave and I was the track manager not Warren, Warren was the PR on the ground. Daves arrogance is known far and wide and as most track owners his mission was not to pay racers what was stated. it got so bad, when Shirley or Garlits came to race as a paid racer usually 3k for 3 runs at the time, they would not take their cars out of the trailer until paid -in cash by Dave. he never tried that crap on Connie Kalitta. he did need the gun there were bad guys out there most of the time stealing from pits and trailers during the race, one group of guys (Brougham Cruisers) loaded their Cadillac and headed for the gate Nancy, Dave's wife tried to stop them at the gate -nice guys that they were- 3 got out of the car and beat Nancy so bad she had to go to the hospital, we had to stop the race so the ambulance could take her. those ignorant bastards came back to another race a few months later thinking they could get in .Dave ordered the gate to let them in, called the sheriffs and they were taken away in cuffs.. point being fora long time that was our track security, he later hired the MMA (Modified Motorcycle Association )to be security- in exchange he gave them 2-3 races per year motorcycles only. there was good and bad at Sacramento. when I started there Dave could get no more than 30-40 cars for his bracket races due to his abrasive personality, when he got angry -t o easily he'd tell a racer take your car, your wife,you dog, your kids and friends get the f**k out and don't come back- and they did.I got him to stay at his house ,saying I'd deal with the racers- and within a year had 200 or more cars per meet. we got better thorugh the years as long as I could get him to stay way from the racers.

 

[Brewzer67]

I knew about Indy’s reputation of very poor customer service, so I ordered my intake through Mancini Racing. It was drop shipped from Indy in a box with absolutely no packing materials. It was beat up a little, and the casting was very poor. We were going to port match anyways, and for the low deck max wedge there are no other options. I hope to never use their products again.

I ordered mine through Hughes and got the exact same experience. Indy just doesn't care.

 

[Challenger340]

I was an INDY dealer for many years, the reason I stopped being an INDY Dealer was really simple.
I got tired of.... and could NOT continue to.... keep Fixing/Repairing the stuff for FREE for my Customers !

Let's face it here... if you are a W.D. Dealer and you bring stuff in for resale to a Customer, there is an obligation to ensure the product you are selling is "up to snuff". So you dis-assemble, check V/Guides, the Valves & Seat prep, Spring pressures etc., etc.
WHO the heck do I BILL for the REPAIRS when you have some V/Guides @ .002" to .003" clearance OOTB, "Light" shining through the Valve/Seat Grind, Valves ground .0015" O.O.R., and on and on ?

So, we still use LOTS of their stuff, and recommend it sometimes because the Casting designs etc. do work for many high power applications..... but now it's the Customer's responsibility to BUY IT themselves, after which, if we have to FIX/Repair it ?
We get PAID to do so !

 

[biomedtechguy]

I spoke with Herb McCandless in person today. Great guy, as always. He also bemoaned the downfall of INDY service. Herb likes Edelbrock, seems like he has for a long time. Ray Barton is his favorite engine builder.

 

[Cranky]

Down fall of Indy??? Did they have an up side? Anyways, EVERY single aftermarket part for a Mopar (should do it for any brand) needs to be checked and it doesn't hurt to check stock stuff either. Been doing this stuff for way too long to not check everything.....and for what it's worth, I degree in every cam that's installed, stock or otherwise.