Bad fresh 727 noises

[B3RE]

will keep a eye out for a trans.. thanks for the nfo.. was hoping to get on the road this summer.. maybe not..

My pleasure, sir. I hope that fixes the issue. Nothing like bench pressing a 727 in and out of a car a half dozen times chasing an issue. Hopefully, it won't come to that. If the input shaft is non-lock up, you may be able to order just a non-lock up pump and compare to the one you have. If it isn't right, you can always send it back.

 

[icetech]

My pleasure, sir. I hope that fixes the issue. Nothing like bench pressing a 727 in and out of a car a half dozen times chasing an issue. Hopefully, it won't come to that. If the input shaft is non-lock up, you may be able to order just a non-lock up pump and compare to the one you have. If it isn't right, you can always send it back.

yeah, just read the stator will have 2-3 balls in it which will tell if it's lock up or not.. gonna pull it apart in a bit and look then measure the height compared to my 62 one.. it's always something

i saw cope has rebuilt pumps for 200+100 core.. if i can't find a trans for parts i will prolly do that

 

[Dave6T4]

I wonder if a .100" thrust washer in there would give you clearance on the tapers?

 

[icetech]

I wonder if a .100" thrust washer in there would give you clearance on the tapers?

wouldn't that shift everything back into the rear though?

 

[Dave6T4]

Lock-up input shaft has a hole through the centre of it, and is not splined to the end.

 

[Dave6T4]

wouldn't that shift everything back into the rear though?

No, it will just take .017" of end drift out of your input shaft.

 

[icetech]

No, it will just take .017" of end drift out of your input shaft.

sorry, thought you meant add .100

BTW... i measured my 62 stator and it's 1.700 from the fiber washer flange to the top of the stator, the newer one is 1.850. sooo yeah.. huge difference.. no idea how it went together and had endplay still.. bet if i had a lathe i could turn down that end and be fine

P.S. if anyone sees this that has a wide bushing stator support and could measure from the top to the fiber washer spot (without washer) i would be grateful.. just wanna see if it's the wrong part or they are all bigger or what

 

[dvw]

A lock up shaft has a smooth end and a different spline count. It won't fit in a standard converter. There is also a late non lockup 3 ring stator. If used with the proper input shaft it'll work. You can not mix 3 ring stators and reaction shaft supports seperately. Also the the 71 and up stator supports use a wide bushing drum. The original 62 drum is a narrow bushing. It will only work with a 67-70 reaction shaft support. If you used the input shaft assy, stator support, and drum from a working doner trans you should be all right.
Doug

 

[icetech]

A lock up shaft has a smooth end and a different spline count. It won't fit in a standard converter. There is also a late non lockup 3 ring stator. If used with the proper input shaft it'll work. You can not mix 3 ring stators and reaction shaft supports seperately. Also the the 71 and up stator supports use a wide bushing drum. The original 62 drum is a narrow bushing. It will only work with a 67-70 reaction shaft support. If you used the input shaft assy, stator support, and drum from a working doner trans you should be all right.
Doug

Thanks.. yeah i pulled it all from a working trans (supposedly) that i bought off a friend of mmissle.. i have no idea how this is even possible. There is another trans near me for 200 i might go snatch.. just hate doing it without identifying the issue first so i don't waste money

 

[icetech]

BTW.. the thrust washed between the input/output shaft.. mine is the mickey mouse 3 ear one, is there supposed to be a steel washer between it and the snap ring on the output shaft? It didn't have one when i took it apart.. if so is it anything special or thickness?

 

[dvw]

These are the 3 different thrust washer set ups. The 3 tab does use a shim. What total endplay did you have? I'll bet it's too much. As I remember 3 tab use was started in 77, the 3 ring shaft was used starting in 78.
Doug

 

[icetech]

These are the 3 different thrust washer set ups. The 3 tab does use a shim. What total endplay did you have? I'll bet it's too much. As I remember 3 tab use was started in 77, the 3 ring shaft was used starting in 78.
Doug

View attachment 1642958

End play was .080, I think someone had rebuilt my 62 trans in the mid 70s and then the car got parked, it was like new inside when i got it but it had the 3 tab thrust washer and no shim behind it.. will see if my other trans has the shim and grab it.
P.S. none of the thrust washers had any wear at all either which i think would be odd for 106k miles.. .

 

[dvw]

The bronze thrust washers hardly ever wear. You will see some weat on the phelonic washers.
Doug

 

[icetech]

The bronze thrust washers hardly ever wear. You will see some weat on the phelonic washers.
Doug

Thanks much Doug.. sorry for being a pain.

 

[icetech]

k.. talked to mr cope tonight for a few mins... A: i need to stop panicking.. when i was younger nothing bothered me.. now i overthink and stress bout every tiny thing.. i hate it.

There is no way the input shaft can hit the stator like that.. and those are factory machining marks.. i put the stator/input shaft together on the bench with a bit of assembly goop on that bevel and pushed while turning and it didn't even touch the lube.. plenty of clearance.

Told me with a new trans/converter there will be glitter in the first runs..

Still no idea what cause the sanding sound but said drive it before yanking it next time don't yank it instantly..

Also.. i THINK the marble sound when reving was the converter bolts barely touching the block.. found some very faint witness marks and checked and i have like 1/32 between the bolt head and block and it was a crap '85 flex plate (didn't think ahead when i had to install and had a 1 day window for help) i already ordered a B&M type flexplate and arp bolts from 440 source.

Soo... order gaskets and do it again.. on the upside i wanted to replace the flexplate anyway.. that 85 one has almost no meat even for a stock one. And looked in my spare trans and it has a much nicer casting on the planetary, the 62 one looks like it was cast in a high school class.. so will swap that.

All in all.. i feel like an idiot.. didn't used to... not sure if it's age or my mind just turning to mush...

 

[dvw]

I've not had good luck with B&M Drive plates. They are to stiff and crack around the bolt holes. Flex plates are supposed to flex. I've discussed this with Chrysler trans engineer's and Rick Allison at A&A. Many of the converter and flex plate bolt heads are too thick. I've machined the heads of the bolts to make them thinner.
Doug

 

[icetech]

I've not had good luck with B&M Drive plates. They are to stiff and crack around the bolt holes. Flex plates are supposed to flex. I've discussed this with Chrysler trans engineer's and Rick Allison at A&A. Many of the converter and flex plate bolt heads are too thick. I've machined the heads of the bolts to make them thinner.
Doug

Yeah.. i hadn't even considered it since they were "Supposed" to be the proper parts, they BARELY touched and not consistently, so it didn't have the constant whack whack.. which is what made me think **** was flying around in the converter or trans...

All in all it's about the best outcome i could ask for.. other than the embarrassment Still doesn't explain the SHHHHH noise.. Thinking maybe a band not as wet as it would like to be since it was so new and not really run.. dunno

 

[Dave6T4]

You should always soak the bands and clutches in transmission oil for 15-20 minutes before installation.

 

[icetech]

You should always soak the bands and clutches in transmission oil for 15-20 minutes before installation.

The clutches i did.. the bands were the old thick iron type bands which good meat left.. had been soaked for years in a trans, but not really "wet" this time i will soak em good before putting in. I doubt that was it but will see..

 

[icetech]

Evening guys, if you read this i have a couple of questions..

When measuring clutch clearance i assume it's with wet discs so you have accurate measurement to running conditions? I mixed and matched parts i have and i have .072 on the front with 5 discs.. and .027 on the rear drum.. I have seen doug post that he ran .070 for years without issue. but the .027 might be too tight..

I have .088 snap rings in the drums, i have some .062 rings but i don't like how loose they fit in the drum.. i saw andrews has some .074 rings but that would put my rear drum around .040 which is too much.
The back of tom hands book has recommendations from trans guys and i'm surprised how all over they are, some are like .075 on the front from and another is .110...

also got my sprag oil hole drilled.. bout .015 off center of the sprag inner race though it should cover it.. just not quite right