Biomedtechguy 572 Bill Mitchell aluminum RB block build thread and other stuff...

[biomedtechguy]

So to boil it down , you're looking for a slick that'll put a 4000 pounder into the nines and and be good in the rain?

No sir.
I already posted that I'm consigned to having a pair of rear tires and wheels strictly for track duty...
BUT
I would like some really fat rear tires and wheels that match the front wheels in appearance (once I get the AMD tubs installed and any other required mods. I will likely have to have my rear leaf springs-Calvert split mono-and rear sliders relocated inboard, whatever)
To be clear, the requirements for the "street" rear tires are they MUST allow me to drive on the highway and elsewhere SAFELY should the roads be wet, or if I get caught in the rain.
An example of what DOES NOT work for me are Nitto 555R drag radials. I had a pair, 295/16 ?, on my 89 Conquest TSi. They were broken in but had lots and lots of tread and tread void, and they suddenly broke loose after about 10 minutes of 60 MPH careful driving on a blacktop Interstate highway in a medium rain. Fortunately I went into the grassy median between the two highways, no concrete or steel culvert(s), deadly drop offs, trees, or cars or other bad things. After I pulled the seat cover out of my butt cheeks with needle-nose pliers, I was able to get back on the highway and only had a lot of grass all over and in the outside parts of the Conquest. The point is, I was blessed, and could have died, destroyed the car, hit others, all kinds of bad stuff, and they should NOT have lost traction in my opinion, but they did, and Nitto 555R drag radials are forever on my "do not use" list.
IF the "street" rear tires are close to track tire/slick performance, say within 2-3 tenths of a second in the quarter mile, I may have them do double duty. Again, the requirement for the "street" rear tires is they MUST have safe traction under careful driving input from me if the roads are wet or I get caught in anything but the heaviest of rain events on the highway and elsewhere.
BUT I would also like them to provide enough traction to be able to get my Roadrunner moving out on dry roads, even if I have to put a bit of heat in them with my line lock and throttle it less aggressively. It would likely be very rare to have a serious "competition" on the street, but if I do, or I get into one of those "situations" and the dedicated track tires are not an appropriate or available option, it would be REALLY NICE to have a pair of street tires that let me put some power down, but not destroy the Roadrunner if I hit a rain storm or a couple of puddles, while I am driving carefully in order to make my destination or during a longer distance "cruising event".

 

[MarPar]

Wait, just to understand correctly; you are getting a separate set of rears strictly for the track?

 

[biomedtechguy]

Wait, just to understand correctly; you are getting a separate set of rears strictly for the track?

I expect that I will have to...
Unless I find tires that meet my requirement for safe driving if the roads are wet or I get caught in the rain, even on the Interstate, and I'm driving carefully, they must allow me to continue on my way...
If those same tires can get me down the 1320 only a few tenths slower than a dedicated track tire like a drag slick I would assume, well I may be ok with running them on the track too.
I just don't know if I can find one tire to do both jobs.
I'll compromise, a few tenths on the track, but I will NOT compromise being able to safely, carefully drive on a wet road or highway in all but the heavier rainstorms and not be able to trust the tires.
Oh, and that "tenths slower on the track is ok" **** goes right out the window as soon as someone I really want to beat, beats me by the couple of tenths..lol.

 

[rikkitik]

Another aspect to consider is chassis prep, not just the tire, but the chassis ability to "plant" the tire.
If you haven't seen the times that the FAST (Factory Appearing Stock Tire) cars run, check it out. Some of these cars run in the 9's on F60 tires.
Case and point, Bryan Doyle's '71 Challenger 6 pack 4spd car. 560hp 654tq ( 540 cu in?) at the wheels, IIRC he's run about 10.7's @ close to 130mph on F60's. He said the car scales at about 3750lbs.
So, you might consider, chassis not just the tires. The FAST cars can get pretty far out there with their suspension, and a bit beyond really comfortable on the street. But you can probably apply some of it, and learning how your suspension can help plant that monster can really pay off.

 

[biomedtechguy]

Another aspect to consider is chassis prep, not just the tire, but the chassis ability to "plant" the tire.
If you haven't seen the times that the FAST (Factory Appearing Stock Tire) cars run, check it out. Some of these cars run in the 9's on F60 tires.
Case and point, Bryan Doyle's '71 Challenger 6 pack 4spd car. 560hp 654tq ( 540 cu in?) at the wheels, IIRC he's run about 10.7's @ close to 130mph on F60's. He said the car scales at about 3750lbs.
So, you might consider, chassis not just the tires. The FAST cars can get pretty far out there with their suspension, and a bit beyond really comfortable on the street. But you can probably apply some of it, and learning how your suspension can help plant that monster can really pay off.

EXCELLENT POINTS and greatly appreciated! YES, the F.A.S.T. Racing cars absolutely blow my mind with the AMAZING times and MPH they run on those skinny little tires, and for sure, that rekindles my hope that I may be able to enjoy satisfactory TRACK TRACTION and do so on my street tires, street tires that MUST be safe enough on wet roads or in the rain, to where I can carefully drive on to my destination or continue the cruise in all but the worst weather.
Unfortunately, the states/cities where FAST races are held all seem to be far away from my home in South Louisiana or I would be at as many as I could attend!! For me, THEY ARE THE EPITOME of what I LOVE in a drag race!! Stock appearing cars that absolutely KICK ***, and do so in the "old school" ways, and they get to put on display the engineering that each manufacturer was capable of, reflecting the various approaches to bring those cars to market and get them sold. Now Chevy has some advantages in that they sold a lot of packages with aluminum intakes, heads, even blocks, and quite a number of solid lifter, high compression, aluminum head equipped engines, and combined with "natural" traction advantages the late 60s Corvettes have, that makes for difficult to overcome competition for our Mopar family, but we do have the mighty 426 Hemi, and some very competitive packages via body and suspension to put them in.
Anyway, YES! That is an encouraging thought. I'm going to start with my street tire search first anyway, since that's what I use the Roadrunner for the most, it makes sense that would be a priority.
I already had a number of parts and systems installed in my Roadrunner about 2 years ago out of necessity and in preparation for the 572. Look at my " @Budnicks certified and approved" signature for many of the details of what I'm referring to.

 

[440rb]

We may not shock the tyre on the hit with our 720ftlbs as much as you will be doing or perhaps not with the tamer but one thing I'm sure you'll do is to put some good double adjustable shocks on it to control the rebound and keep the tyre planted, the rest I believe you have chassis wise will be ok.

The FAST guys cars may be stock appearing but they are as far away from stock as the moon is.......

 

[biomedtechguy]

one thing I'm sure you'll do is to put some good double adjustable shocks on it to control the rebound and keep the tyre planted

If you check out my ridiculously long signature (I'm always on my Android phone when I'm on the forum, and I have to go to "landscape" view) to see it.
I have had Viking double adjustable front shocks on my car for at least 4 years, but at that time I replaced whatever extremely basic rear shocks with some barely used, somewhat better rear shocks.
BUT
About 2 years ago when I had all of the widespread, massive upgrades and additions done to my car I went with the recommendations of Viking and got some really nice TRIPLE adjustable shocks from them. If you have the time, I'd really appreciate your opinion of them, but I think that I'll never want for any kind of adjustment capabilities that the ones I have don't offer, and yet I don't believe that they are overly complicated to where I wind up lost and confused.

 

[440rb]

I would say they are sufficient not knowing much about them or ever using them, they are an entry level serious drag shock I think.
Our calvert 9-ways seem to do the job well enough and not on full hard either, those vikings are well above those I would think. I don't know to what extent the Tamer will calm the inital hit, perhaps its similar to an Auto leaving@max torque? in which case you should have no issues.

 

[biomedtechguy]

I would say they are sufficient not knowing much about them or ever using them, they are an entry level serious drag shock I think.
Our calvert 9-ways seem to do the job well enough and not on full hard either, those vikings are well above those I would think. I don't know to what extent the Tamer will calm the inital hit, perhaps its similar to an Auto leaving@max torque? in which case you should have no issues.

I have several phone calls I'll be making, and I expect the person on the other end of the line to be as knowledgeable and helpful as they were when I was making some decisions.
Mr. Kim Smith at Smith Racecraft was helpful in discussing his Assassin traction bars vs the 2 options from Calvert. The 3 are very similar, and Calvert has a good reputation for tech/track support, but the Assassin bars look a bit better made, and the ground clearance fell between the 2 sizes of Caltracks. I think the biggest difference is the way the front of the bar contacts the leaf spring and the way it mounts and "clamps", I like the Assassin bars better, but both work well.
I "had decided" on going with a RMS or GERST triangulated 4 link, but the forum talked me into the split mono leaf springs and Assassin bars.
Viking was good for recommending both pair of shocks, thoroughly quizzing me about my car and purposes. The XS is "eXtreme Street" application, and I read the whole tech description of what the 3 adjustments do, the 3rd one (that usually isn't on many shocks) sounds useful. Again, I will lean hard on the manufacturer early on, not only for advice, but to help me understand the "how and why" so I can understand what adjustments do. It's a "teach a man to fish" approach I'm looking for, and I won't accept nor do I expect them to toss me a tuna salad sandwich through the drive through window and wish me a nice day.
@weedburner with the HitMaster has been great on the phone with my questions and that was before I ever bought the HitMaster.
Thanks again for your help!

 

[RoasterStrudel]

Have you considered an M&H drag radial? I'm attempting a higher power street build, and I'm looking for very similar requirements you're looking for. I figured if I got caught in the rain, they still have some tread pattern.

I plan on building mine around a 390/45/15, but they have a 390/40/17 available if you prefer a 17" wheel? Just another option.

I have some old and bald 325/50/15 drag radials I've driven in the rain many times. When they had some tread, I wouldn't trust them on higher-speed corners, but behaved at up to 55 MPH in a straight line in a heavy downpour. That's all I was willing to attempt with my tiny wipers and limited visibility!

 

[MarPar]

I expect that I will have to...
Unless I find tires that meet my requirement for safe driving if the roads are wet or I get caught in the rain, even on the Interstate, and I'm driving carefully, they must allow me to continue on my way...
If those same tires can get me down the 1320 only a few tenths slower than a dedicated track tire like a drag slick I would assume, well I may be ok with running them on the track too.
I just don't know if I can find one tire to do both jobs.
I'll compromise, a few tenths on the track, but I will NOT compromise being able to safely, carefully drive on a wet road or highway in all but the heavier rainstorms and not be able to trust the tires.
Oh, and that "tenths slower on the track is ok" **** goes right out the window as soon as someone I really want to beat, beats me by the couple of tenths..lol.

I totally get the concept of having a multi-tasker for both situations, but IMHO you'll be ahead getting a track specific tires and then having one set for the street. Take a page out of the Hellcat playbook...and aluminum floor jack and a set of rears in the trunk on track day. That way, you are not limited to a drag radial for the street.

 

[biomedtechguy]

I appreciate the advice!
I have a 3 ton aluminum floor jack I just bought. It's still damn heavy! and I wouldn't dare have it in the Roadrunner on a run down the track, probably not in my RR at all, but OK in a tow vehicle or in a "support vehicle" like a tiny trailer some of the Drag Week guys use.

I had got a 1½ ton aluminum as my "trunk jack" but my wife managed to F it up just a few months after I got it. It still may come in handy if I can fix it, but it doesn't lift very high and it moves in a rather long arc.

 

[Fran Blacker]

How did she mess up the jack?

 

[biomedtechguy]

I've been pondering the street tire issue, and I thought maybe a clue can be found in the 3 pictures I've saved to show what BIG FATTIES look like on a Roadrunner. It turns out ALL 3 have heavily treaded tires on them! Check it out, maybe the tread will give y'all an idea of what tires they are?

 

[biomedtechguy]

How did she mess up the jack?

Unscrewed the handle counterclockwise ALL THE WAY (release pressure) and called me "The jack is leaking oil out of it. Every time I pump the handle"

 

[MarPar]

I appreciate the advice!
I have a 3 ton aluminum floor jack I just bought. It's still damn heavy! and I wouldn't dare have it in the Roadrunner on a run down the track, probably not in my RR at all, but OK in a tow vehicle or in a "support vehicle" like a tiny trailer some of the Drag Week guys use.
View attachment 1302788
I had got a 1½ ton aluminum as my "trunk jack" but my wife managed to F it up just a few months after I got it. It still may come in handy if I can fix it, but it doesn't lift very high and it moves in a rather long arc.
View attachment 1302790

I've seen mini racing jacks for this exact purpose. Not cheap, but at this point...lol

Either way, Im sure you could make friends at the track who will watch your street tires and jack whilst you race.

 

[RemCharger]

Is it mini tubbed with the springs moved inboard?

 

[biomedtechguy]

I think 2 of the 3 Roadrunners in the pix I posted have M/T "Sportsman" model tires, and one looks like the dreaded Nitto 555R. Not sure, but have a look.

 

[RoasterStrudel]

I think 2 of the 3 Roadrunners in the pix I posted have M/T "Sportsman" model tires, and one looks like the dreaded Nitto 555R. Not sure, but have a look.

The bottom one looks to be the Hoosier Pro Street series tire. They make huge sizes with great water evacuation grooves, but I believe they are a harder compound tire and won't get the same traction a drag radial or the bias-ply Mickey Thompson Sportsman pictured on the other two.

 

[MarPar]

I think 2 of the 3 Roadrunners in the pix I posted have M/T "Sportsman" model tires, and one looks like the dreaded Nitto 555R. Not sure, but have a look.

I think you're right. the first 2 appear to be the Sportsmans.