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BluePrint Engines 392 Hemi Interest? Thoughts? Comments?

Agreed. But then a (forgive me Ma Mopar for saying this) a GM computer can and has run the Gen3 Hemi.
 
Interesting concept if I had $9K+ to drop on one. I am going to buy a long block and go from there.
 
Holley can run it, check it out.
 
I like the idea. Having the parts to easy retro-fit the Gen III into the older cars would be important to the market your after.
I bought a DBW pedal and it was not too expensive, but again, fitting it to the stock location of the old car is the hard part.
I haven't looked at the DBW throttle bodies that closely, but maybe they can be converted to cable operated to make swaps easier?
I have been holding off on my 6.1L swap hoping Holley will add the NAG1 transmission support to their ECU.
 
IMO the problem Blueprint has is multifaceted; the engines are not cheap to start with, thus it is hard to mark them up enough to make money on them. They are already starting off on the high end and trying to offer something that would get a potential customer to choose them over the Mopar crate motor is the trick. While most buyers like the improvements they are offering, ultimately it comes down to cost for many. If I had the resources and desire to by a 6.4 crate motor (about $9K +/-) from several sources, I would probably be interested in an "upgraded" version for say $11K assuming what I was getting had $2K worth of increase value (perceived or real). This is a tough area to develop revenue though due to the initial cost of the engines. What I see here and on some other sites is people looking for the easiest and cheapest way to put a Hemi under the hood.

If someone really wanted to get into the Hemi game, I think packaging would be the best way to make any money in it. What I mean is that currently when someone buys a GIII Hemi regardless of whether it is a used engine or crate engine, they then have to spend a lot of time and money to configure it to fit their application. I think if some one were to offer tailored kits it might be of enough interest to bring in customers. In other words, if a company offered say a long block option and had an oil pan, intake, valve covers, motor mounts, etc that were available as options, I think people would be interested because they have to buy those things anyway separately. If I were doing it I would keep minimal inventory and offer a medium lead time to the customers which would allow me to gather all of the parts he/she ordered. The key here is that the parts need to fit the application and from what I see this is the area that is lacking any real authority. There are lots of people who have put G3 hemis into older cars but everyone has done it differently and there does not seem to be any consensus of how to do it consistently, what parts work, etc. If a company were able to fill this void, it would be relatively successful.

I decided to go with a 6.4 for my 71, but spent a lot of time researching what I needed to do it and to be honest I am still not done trying to understand it. As with anything car related, there are always a number of options and it can be confusing, if there was someone who actually took the time to understand it and was able to become a "one stop shop", I think people would be interested. As it stands now, you have to find an engine, then find mounts, then find a controller system, find an oil pan, find exhaust, etc. The real key would be to offer options/variations because everyone wants something different, but again I would not stock inventory of all of that, I would have accounts with various companies so that I could obtain the parts. I realize that one way to make money is to obtain the items at a discount (i.e. wholesaler) but in this case I do not think the volume would be there to facilitate that, but I do think a company could offer the various parts for prices similar to what an individual could find on their own, so that would be a wash.

What the customer would be paying for is knowledge; what works for the application they have. This would extend to the transmission side as well (not suggesting selling transmissions, rather what is needed to use a specific transmission). So if a customer calls up and says they want to put a 6.4 into a 71 Charger and use a A833 transmission, the company could then tell them what is needed to make this work. Right now, a 6.4 long block is around $3500 plus shipping, if there was a company like I am suggesting that says we charge $4000 and get the long block, oil pan and motor mounts (or something like that), I would seriously consider that.

Well that is my $.02...
 
What 70Chall440 said. Having the parts and information to install the engine is key.
It's a hassle to research, and shop all the different parts and companies for mounts, oil pans, headers, and such.
 
I definitely think this is a market niche that someone could exploit. I don't think it is something that would make you rich per se, but I think it is something that would make consistent revenue if executed properly. The thing is that someone would need the desire and passion to get into it, it is not something that would run itself, they would need to do the research, build the industry relationships, talk to people who have done the swap successfully and learn what works and what doesn't. But all that said, if someone was willing to do do it, I do think the hobby would respond especially since more and more people are wanting to do the swap.
 
Johnny Mac said:
Hey Guys,

I'm pretty active over on A-Bodies, but haven't checked in here for a bit. I posted the below over there, and I think since so many B bodies are ending up with Gen III's it's time we start exploring options!

Anyways...As many of you guys know, I'm a big Mopar guy, and have several, and you know i'm always pushing to do more in the mopar market.

Not too dissimilar from the LS market, the gen III Hemi is making its way into many restomods, trucks, drag cars, etc. It doesn't come without its own set of trials, but more and more of these engines are finding their way into builds in place of big blocks, and high po smallblocks. The aftermarket has finally started supporting swaps, and performance parts. But i'm not telling many of you things you don't already know!


Onto some pretty cool things you may not know about! I've had some meetings recently on the viability, and market demands of a gen III. we've discussed everything from a 5.7, to a 426, and I think our most viable option is landing on the 392.

What I'd like to offer is a forged internal 392, somewhere in the high 500 HP area, in a complete turn key configuration, but offer it at a price that's less than, or similar to chryslers 6.4 package.

for conversations sake, lets just say this would be 9K at a complete engine, and 11K as turn key with an ecu/controller/harness.

In comparison to our BluePrint Mopar 408, if i equipped a 470 hp roller 408 with a sniper, It'd be 8600...and people buy them...so i don't think we're nuts at this level. another 100 horse, and factory style MPFI for the difference I think is fair.

Let me answer some FAQ's below on this project, and feel free to weigh in below with your own.

Q: What exactly will the engine be?
A: a 392 (small chance of a 426) stroker gen III hemi with 2009+ cylinder heads and block

Q: What benefits will this have vs the chrysler offerings?
A: Forged internals, more HP, actual tech support. Dyno tested, 30 month warranty, availability, swap oil pan included, more cost effective than the "MP" versions, with premium internals.

Q: Why not do an inexpensive 5.7?
A: We will never win the "inexpensive" battle as a performance engine builder, when compared to a "reman" 5.7, or a used/junkyard takeout. If someone is shopping a hemi from a 150K mile police car, and wants to pin their own harness, and roll the dice with that engine, thats fine in my book, but we can't play in that space profitably, so this is purely aimed at a competitor to the "MP" offerings, and dare i said a replacement for the Mopar Big block.

Q:Will this be OEM MPFI? or aftermarket?
A:At this time, we're leaning toward an aftermarket intake, but using an OEM computer that will be unlocked for future HP tuner use.

------------------

My Questions for you:

Would you consider BluePrint if you were shopping the Gen III market place?
Why, or why not?

Are there any unknowns that prevent you from considering a Gen III?

Anything this engine would need to have, or not have to be attractive?
(like how we will address any and all valve seat, timing chain, etc, issues of the OE hemi)

Open to any questions. I'll be as transparent as I can be at this moment. I realize a crate engine isn't for everyone, let alone a modern powerplant, or something thats 10K, but please appreciate the effort, and willingness to offer something else for the marketplace, and hopefully with your feedback we can see this come to light!

Johnny Mac
BluePrint Engines
Click to expand...
I think you are on to something. I feel there will be a lot of guys willing to do this king of a swap. That being said. I bought my 1st Mopar in 1970. I have been a Mopar fan ever since. I'm 66 years old and there is something about opening the hood and seeing vintage iron under the hood. When I see a new engine sitting in the engine bay it just doesn't excite me the way a 440 or a 426 does. AS you can tell I built a 440 Six Pack to replace the 383. I think it is the most beautiful engine ever built. I may not be as fast as a Gen III but I look much cooler. My .02 cents.
 
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I don't think this is about what is better, rather it is a question of how to serve one segment of the hobby. The old iron will remain in a lot of cars for a very long time, so I do not think there is any danger of them being replaced anytime soon.
 
There are lesser known mopar only vendors already providing most of what you need. Now that Holley has gotten into it hardcore, you have a world known brand offering (near) one stop shop for all your conversion needs. I would think only Edlebrock would have the ability to challenge Holley on the global level for this market. You're either going to go to Mancini/bouchillon/tanks Inc or you're going to go to Holley.
 
furious70 said:
There are lesser known mopar only vendors already providing most of what you need. Now that Holley has gotten into it hardcore, you have a world known brand offering (near) one stop shop for all your conversion needs. I would think only Edlebrock would have the ability to challenge Holley on the global level for this market. You're either going to go to Mancini/bouchillon/tanks Inc or you're going to go to Holley.
Click to expand...

I agree with your statements but Holley doesnt carry the engines and I would bet that it would be tough to find someone on the customer service side that knows jack about a hemi conversion other than what their catalog says. I think it would be pretty nice to have a vendor that was more of a one stop shop, now they probably exist to one degree or another in Arlington or some of the other hemi specific vendors but they start with custom/high HP engines.

As with all things, there is no free lunch, and anyone wanting to do this can find the parts out there, but since the proposal was put up I thought I would add something; doesn't mean its right or appropriate its just an idea. As for Holley, I like their controller system and will probably use on (already have a HP system on my 70 Challenger) but I will not be using their headers or oil pan; I will use TTI and Kevko for those.
 
Actually bouchillon is an MP dealer and will sell you the crate engine and all the stuff to go around it. Indy also builds upgraded engines like Arlington, will be interesting to see if the new owners dive more into Gen III over time. Right now it seems they are focused on getting the world right with old school blocks, which are still needed badly.
 
It kills me that BluePrint isn't in this game yet. I honestly hope we get there. That's why we have a tester in R&D, and why its going to be installed into a car for powertour, etc. I'm not scared of hitting a retail price that is attractive, or HP numbers, or engine design, or management, etc. The "hard" part for "us" is finding the time among the other Mega-projects and 50 OTHER engines we are building a day.

I love my mopars, anyone that knows me knows that, but I will say talk is cheap. The 493 is a perfect example. That engine got to the point we were selling 20 a YEAR (yes thats from a company that builds 50 engines a day).I'm sure you see the issue there.
The second we discontinued it (due to core supply) I heard a ton of "Man i would have bought one of those" Well i wish ya did too....because then maybe we would have found a way to keep building them.

There is some question of how many we would sell. Obviously. i will say there is a VERY positive customer / fan reaction, and interest, to where i will put my name and efforts on it if we get to full market scale on it.

I know not everyone on this board knows me, or my background, where I work, the mopars I race, but i'm always willing to help anyone, and hopefully we make these happen.

Ya know what you can do to help? If you'd truthfully buy one. Send in an email, or post on the facebook page. Everyone knows I want them. We need to hear from others.
https://www.facebook.com/BluePrintEngines

[email protected]
 
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Johnny Mac said:
It kills me that BluePrint isn't in this game yet. I honestly hope we get there. That's why we have a tester in R&D, and why its going to be installed into a car for powertour, etc. I'm not scared of hitting a retail price that is attractive, or HP numbers, or engine design, or management, etc. The "hard" part for "us" is finding the time among the other Mega-projects and 50 OTHER engines we are building a day.

I love my mopars, anyone that knows me knows that, but I will say talk is cheap. The 493 is a perfect example. That engine got to the point we were selling 20 a YEAR (yes thats from a company that builds 50 engines a day).I'm sure you see the issue there.
The second we discontinued it (due to core supply) I heard a ton of "Man i would have bought one of those" Well i wish ya did too....because then maybe we would have found a way to keep building them.

There is some question of how many we would sell. Obviously. i will say there is a VERY positive customer / fan reaction, and interest, to where i will put my name and efforts on it if we get to full market scale on it.

I know not everyone on this board knows me, or my background, where I work, the mopars I race, but i'm always willing to help anyone, and hopefully we make these happen.

Ya know what you can do to help? If you'd truthfully buy one. Send in an email, or post on the facebook page. Everyone knows I want them. We need to hear from others.
https://www.facebook.com/BluePrintEngines

[email protected]
Click to expand...

Johnny - I for one appreciate your willingness to even ask the question, I think it means a lot to the hobby that someone from industry can even spell Mopar because as well all know, this is not the norm. Having worked in an industry that made consumer goods (in my case it was firearms), I absolutely understand what you are referring to as we were besieged with GFIs (good freaking ideas) resembling "you know what you should make" and "why did you stop making X"... well its all about the money (not necessarily in a bad way), most people do not comprehend the effort it takes to put something together, build, etc. and in the end its all about the ROI (return on investment). Sure you can makes some awesome things but if no one is buying and there is money to be made elsewhere, well you have to do what you have to do. While I would love to think that the hobby would reach out in significant numbers, I am realist to know that this probably isn't going to happen. Lots of people have asked for new G2 Hemi stuff but then when someone does it and they see the price, few actually buy.
 
70chall440 said:
Johnny - I for one appreciate your willingness to even ask the question, I think it means a lot to the hobby that someone from industry can even spell Mopar because as well all know, this is not the norm. Having worked in an industry that made consumer goods (in my case it was firearms), I absolutely understand what you are referring to as we were besieged with GFIs (good freaking ideas) resembling "you know what you should make" and "why did you stop making X"... well its all about the money (not necessarily in a bad way), most people do not comprehend the effort it takes to put something together, build, etc. and in the end its all about the ROI (return on investment). Sure you can makes some awesome things but if no one is buying and there is money to be made elsewhere, well you have to do what you have to do. While I would love to think that the hobby would reach out in significant numbers, I am realist to know that this probably isn't going to happen. Lots of people have asked for new G2 Hemi stuff but then when someone does it and they see the price, few actually buy.
Click to expand...
sounds like you get it entirely my friend! appreciate the encouragement!
 
70chall440 said:
IMO the problem Blueprint has is multifaceted; the engines are not cheap to start with, thus it is hard to mark them up enough to make money on them. They are already starting off on the high end and trying to offer something that would get a potential customer to choose them over the Mopar crate motor is the trick. While most buyers like the improvements they are offering, ultimately it comes down to cost for many. If I had the resources and desire to by a 6.4 crate motor (about $9K +/-) from several sources, I would probably be interested in an "upgraded" version for say $11K assuming what I was getting had $2K worth of increase value (perceived or real). This is a tough area to develop revenue though due to the initial cost of the engines. What I see here and on some other sites is people looking for the easiest and cheapest way to put a Hemi under the hood.

If someone really wanted to get into the Hemi game, I think packaging would be the best way to make any money in it. What I mean is that currently when someone buys a GIII Hemi regardless of whether it is a used engine or crate engine, they then have to spend a lot of time and money to configure it to fit their application. I think if some one were to offer tailored kits it might be of enough interest to bring in customers. In other words, if a company offered say a long block option and had an oil pan, intake, valve covers, motor mounts, etc that were available as options, I think people would be interested because they have to buy those things anyway separately. If I were doing it I would keep minimal inventory and offer a medium lead time to the customers which would allow me to gather all of the parts he/she ordered. The key here is that the parts need to fit the application and from what I see this is the area that is lacking any real authority. There are lots of people who have put G3 hemis into older cars but everyone has done it differently and there does not seem to be any consensus of how to do it consistently, what parts work, etc. If a company were able to fill this void, it would be relatively successful.

I decided to go with a 6.4 for my 71, but spent a lot of time researching what I needed to do it and to be honest I am still not done trying to understand it. As with anything car related, there are always a number of options and it can be confusing, if there was someone who actually took the time to understand it and was able to become a "one stop shop", I think people would be interested. As it stands now, you have to find an engine, then find mounts, then find a controller system, find an oil pan, find exhaust, etc. The real key would be to offer options/variations because everyone wants something different, but again I would not stock inventory of all of that, I would have accounts with various companies so that I could obtain the parts. I realize that one way to make money is to obtain the items at a discount (i.e. wholesaler) but in this case I do not think the volume would be there to facilitate that, but I do think a company could offer the various parts for prices similar to what an individual could find on their own, so that would be a wash.

What the customer would be paying for is knowledge; what works for the application they have. This would extend to the transmission side as well (not suggesting selling transmissions, rather what is needed to use a specific transmission). So if a customer calls up and says they want to put a 6.4 into a 71 Charger and use a A833 transmission, the company could then tell them what is needed to make this work. Right now, a 6.4 long block is around $3500 plus shipping, if there was a company like I am suggesting that says we charge $4000 and get the long block, oil pan and motor mounts (or something like that), I would seriously consider that.

Well that is my $.02...
Click to expand...


I am researching now and can not agree with you more. I would love to find a place that would put a turn key package together for me and send it out, specific to my car from fuel tank to, ecm, to oil adapter, to flex plate, to radiator.....

Love it.
 
Ideally, what would be awesome is a company that you could contact and tell them what you have, what your expectations are and what your budget is, then get some options. The amateur aircraft industry does something like this, essentially you pay as you go. A little different there in that their product kind of requires that you go back to them for more parts, but I do think that if a company really provided a service, many would stick with them. I know that I have paid more for things due to good customer service and a connection.
 
There seems to be a larger market for replacement GenIII in the newer cars and trucks, than the older car swap / conversions.
The conversion market seems pretty small, but part of that is there is not much support for it either.
Really need to get more info out about the swap. Need to look at those owners with small blocks who usually swap to big blocks for more power (they will be spending the same money or more to swap to a 600 hp big block.)
If I recall the GenIII bolts to the small block bellhousing? Has the serpentine belt drive with high output alternator, new style A/C compressor and power steering pump, Port EFI, and individual coil pack ignition.
I think the DBW makes the swap more difficult because of the electronic pedal. A cable operated throttle body (or stock one converted to cable) could make the swap easier.
 
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