Body work

[superbird77]

Mr. Cranium nailed it on his post. I am going thru this currently myself with a pretty mild resto-mod on my 69 Roadrunner. Basically i had a budget figure in mind before is started the project, then the real life budget hit me once i got into it and started bodywork and buying parts. I have since blown thru my initial budget and the car isn't half completed. Even with doing some of the work myself it doesn't take that much off unless you know how to do metal work, sanding and paint yourself. I will end up spending $40K or more once its done. The good part is it will be pretty much a new car and have the upgrades, performance and look that i personally wanted. I am not looking to sell it anytime soon so i try to not think about resale value too much.

If i had to do it over i would look for a car already completed but as stated before, its hard to find one that is the way you want it. Someone on the forum once gave me excellent advice telling me not to worry about the cost and just focus on enjoyment the project and end product. Any muscle car is expensive to restore, mopars and normally the most costly of the bunch. I guess its the price we pay to have something a little different than a camaro or mustang.

$20,000.00 is very very light. Add wheels, tires, front end rebuild, rechroming, buying missing parts, etc, etc. It just keeps adding up. As a reference, I spent 37 large on my hemi Charger restoration a year & a half ago & if you recall, the body was already painted & the interior was all original except; just the rugs and headliner needed to be replaced. Granted, a hemi is more costly to rebuild than a big block, but my rebuild really wasn't that bad.

On the other hand, if you go the restomod route, you'll have a hundred grand into it like nothing, just like this guy...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dodge-Charg...7e52eb1ac&item=171348767148&pt=US_Cars_Trucks

....and you'll be lucky to get 50 when you sell it.


The best bet is to always buy a done car. The hard part is finding the right.

 

[Bruzilla]

$20,000.00 is very very light. Add wheels, tires, front end rebuild, rechroming, buying missing parts, etc, etc. It just keeps adding up.

He was asking for a quote on paint & body, not a resto with new glass, tires, rechroming, etc. You're right that the other stuff will cost more, especially the little stuff. I paid more for my plastic Road Runner dash nameplate than I did for the 727 transmission.

 

[kb67mopar]

If the body is pristine and only needed a re-spray you would already be over 2k. If you have ANY body damage or rot with panel repair the price will skyrocket exponentially. Personally I taught myself how to do the metal work because I couldn't afford to pay anybody. The exterior body work (ie filler) and paint I am paying a guy for but he is a family friend and doing it waaay cheaper than most.

My advice is to replace any metal work needed yourself and paint everything except the exterior yourself. That saved me thousands.

 

[Cranky]

And the crotch rot you'll get from sweating your balls off while doing countless hours of metal work.

I don't know where the guy lives but if in the Houston area, you'll get crotch rot just standing in the shop looking at the car thinking about what to do next and even if you wear shorts, at certain times of the day, the damn skeeters will feast on you....especially if you live close to Galveston Bay like I do or live near a bayou.

 

[Bruzilla]

If the body is pristine and only needed a re-spray you would already be over 2k.

Not necessarily. My car's body, much like my own, was a wreck and I got the bodywork done and a beautiful black two-stage paint job for $2,300. There are options for getting the work done to fit most budgets, which was why I wanted to know what his target price was. Oh, and my body is still a wreck.

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I don't know where the guy lives but if in the Houston area, you'll get crotch rot just standing in the shop looking at the car thinking about what to do next and even if you wear shorts, at certain times of the day, the damn skeeters will feast on you....especially if you live close to Galveston Bay like I do or live near a bayou.

Yeah, I thought about doing my own prep work, in Jacksonville, FL, in July, and said nope... I'm going to find someone else to sweat their balls off.

 

[Propwash]

If the body is pristine and only needed a re-spray you would already be over 2k. If you have ANY body damage or rot with panel repair the price will skyrocket exponentially. Personally I taught myself how to do the metal work because I couldn't afford to pay anybody. The exterior body work (ie filler) and paint I am paying a guy for but he is a family friend and doing it waaay cheaper than most.

My advice is to replace any metal work needed yourself and paint everything except the exterior yourself. That saved me thousands.

I agree. At least some tear down. Better than paying a shop 60-90 bucks an hour. Front/rear glass will need to come out to change the roof skin. Rear bumper will have to come off to access the rear tail panel to trunk pan spot welds for your trunk pan replacement. Honestly removing the trunk pan/roof skin is not rocket science. It's a matter of melting out the lead at the A-Pillar's and C-pillars for the roof skin, and drilling out a ton of spot welds for both. I'm guessing if you just did removal yourself, you'd probably be saving over 1K right there. Don't skimp on the paint either. Just decent paint/primer/clear/reducer/hardener will very easily cost over 1K. There's a big difference in between a $3K paint job and a $7-8K paint job, and it just isn't Benjamin's. You're talking some spot work, a coat or two of high build, a block and spray......Vs. Skim coat, block, high build, block, dust coat, block, dust coat, block, spray, color sand, clear, wet sand, buff & polish. It's pretty easy to understand which one will be laser straight and which one will be waving to you as it goes by. Anyways, good luck on your hunt for your body shop. Asking around like you're doing, asking for references, seeing & asking questions about cars they currently have in their shop are always good means of finding a good shop for your car.

 

[67GTX440]

If a car has roof rot, it generally means that the car also has...

quarter rot, wheelwell rot, rocker panel rot, door rot, floor rot, trunk rot, frame rot, cowl rot, fender rot, rear valance rot, hood rot, trunklid rot and dashboard rot.

Have I missed anything?

rottweiler:grommit:

 

[snakeoil24]

if your concerned about the money then don't restore a car. If you can afford it and have the time expect like in my case to spend 120K to restore with all chrome, stainless redone, 472 Hemi with single carb and new Mopar Iron block and heads every nut and bolt to run every bit of 120K. The motor alone cost 17K in parts brand new everything and machine work, balancing Solid Roller cam and a spare Kellog Crank that i had stored for 30 years by the timne I was done 25K.

 

[Donny]

Money. We all, well most of us are concerned at how much this costs us to do. When I make invoices, I make darn sure I have measurable standards and justified accomplishments each month, down to the 15 minute increment. When I present the Invoice it's all there, line by line of work done, costs incurred and bottom amount due. I tell folks don't budget, if you have a budget, triple it, then this is where your mind needs to be. Paint jobs; there is the $500.00 paint job, and the $15,000 job, there really isn't anything in between, I know, it sucks!

 

[AMX364]

When I was very young and in HS with my 5 year old AMX I kept complete records for the first year and added the totals once. Never again do I keep such complete records. Had spent more then I had earned that year, had started saving before I had the car.

 

[EV2 GTX]

Hi

Looking at getting the body work started on my 70 charger. It will need a new roof skin (and maybe into the top of the quarters) and also a new trunk, a couple of other little bits and eventually panel and Paint.

At the moment I would like to get some prices and and idea where to start.

Can anyone recommend a good person or shop (preferably close to Orem Provo where the car is) that knows what they are doing, will do a good job and wont empty my pockets to much.

Thanks

View attachment 191303

"roof rot" was it a vinyl roof car? Most all vinyl tops have that problem...doesn't mean the whole car is shot....

 

[racetiger]

I know everyone means well but I think there is some idea that I have NO clue how to go about having a car restored and that I think it is going to be easy, fast and cost a couple of thousand to do. I know what the deal is and i'm not going to walk into any old car garage bend over and take it up the :icon_eek:!

if your concerned about the money then don't restore a car. If you can afford it and have the time expect like in my case to spend 120K to restore 472 Hemi with single carb and new Mopar Iron block and heads every nut and bolt to run every bit of 120K

(no offense) I don't really care about how you decided to spend 120K on 427 Hemi and had every nut/bolt covered in gold. (I already have the engine built, check out 440 **** here in bodes). it's not going to be a that sort of car, but I will be pissed if I spend years putting the car back together just like I want and then I slam the door and a 10 pounds of bog falls off!

Just to give everyone some idea about the car and myself.
I always wanted a 70 charger. I enjoy working on cars as much as driving them which is why i have started on this project. I plan on doing most of the work on it myself.
I picked this car up for 4K. The floor pan is good! The trunk needs replacing (standard issue right), and the roof needs replacing (was a vinyl top car), Quarters look to be good at this stage.
I plan to tear down the car (bumpers, lights, front quarters, windows, doors, cut out the trunk etc) and basically take the shell down to a media blaster and find out if the car is as good as I thought it was.

Right, lets get back to the point.

This is where I was hoping someone could give me an idea what sort of body shop to go with. I know not to go to Maaco or the guy with the really shinny shoes, but is it a good idea to go to a different shop to do the paint than the body.

I was thinking around 7-10K a pretty good paint job, sound about right?

How much have you guys spent on medal work? and what did you have done?

Donny - if I had my car all torn down would it be realistic to say around $1500 to have it blasted? www.drblast.com

Is there anything wrong with getting all metal/body work done shooting it with an exoxy primer and doing paint much later?

These are the sort of things I was hoping you guys might me able to give me some ideas about.

 

[steve from staten island]

!500 to blast the car depending on were you live sound like your in the right ballpark. I spent around 1700 in my part but the guy chemically striped it first than blasted it on the exterior parts of the body---------The kind of money your talking after the body work is done to paint your car sounds like your looking and should get a top notch job. Just for something you might find interesting look at the pictures of my car. You will notice a small shop,that is were my body work and paint was done. You can see the car my looking in the mopars for sale section and going back around 5 or so months. Its a gold 69 B body under Steve from Staten island. What your looking at cost me around 8,500 soup to nuts which was the bargain of the century. We did both quarters and a one piece trunk floor plus other areas which needed rot repair. The engine bay looks as good as the outside of the car. Keep us informed

 

[Propwash]

I was thinking around 7-10K a pretty good paint job, sound about right?

Is there anything wrong with getting all metal/body work done shooting it with an exoxy primer and doing paint much later?

How much have you guys spent on medal work? and what did you have done?

Yes! As long as you're not talking about some crazy metal flake or House of Kolor candy, 7-10K should get you a pretty decent paint job. And that would be a BC/CC. As far as separating the body work and paint between two different places, I wouldn't. Prep and type of materials needs to coincide with the paint. Switching between the two could easily lead to inconsistencies. Nothing wrong with coating all blasted panels with epoxy for the time being. And how much time have I spent on metal work you ask? Don't have a log book, but i'm surprised I don't cough rust with some of the rotten garbage I get blessed with. Good luck.

 

[Bruzilla]

This is where I was hoping someone could give me an idea what sort of body shop to go with. I know not to go to Maaco or the guy with the really shinny shoes, but is it a good idea to go to a different shop to do the paint than the body.

I was thinking around 7-10K a pretty good paint job, sound about right?

How much have you guys spent on medal work? and what did you have done?

Donny - if I had my car all torn down would it be realistic to say around $1500 to have it blasted? www.drblast.com

Is there anything wrong with getting all metal/body work done shooting it with an exoxy primer and doing paint much later?

These are the sort of things I was hoping you guys might me able to give me some ideas about.

I wouldn't ever suggest someone take a classic car to Maaco, but I'm finding it harder and harder to find anything good to say about most restoration or better collision shops. The issue with resto shops is their business model seems to be to always have more work to do than they can do, and keep taking in new customers before they've cleared out their backlog of old customers. Plus you're always competing for time against a deep-pockets owner who shows up and says "I need this done ASAP, and I don't care what it costs!". That's the issue I've been having for close to 15 months now with the guys who are working on my car and it's gotten to the point where I'm having to take legal action. And collision shops make far more money off doing insurance work on accident vehicles, so you're always at the wrong end of that line too.

My suggestion, and I make it because it worked great for me, is check around on Craigslist, cruise meets, etc., and find a professional body guy with a great resume who works at a shop but also does work on their own from home. You get the same quality work, but you're not paying a burdened labor rate of $100+/hr. My P&B should have cost $5k to $7k, and I ended up paying $2,300, and more importantly it took just under two months to get everything done. so I would keep that option in mind.

As primering now and painting later, there's nothing wrong with that. As long as metal isn't exposed to air and moisture you're good to go.

 

[kb67mopar]

If you can take out the rusted metal why not put it back in yourself? It really isn't that hard especially if you are removing the whole trunk panel or in pieces. Just a matter of spot welding it back in.

If you did most of the metal work that will save you bundles. And doing things like the trunk really doesn't matter since it won't be seen by most. Chances are it will look fine and end up covered by a trunk matt.

Exterior body panel replacement, you could pay to get done if you don't feel confident. I did the metal work and paid my body guy to do filler, primer and paint on all the external areas

I painted the engine bay, door jambs, inner doors, underhood, in trunk, trunk lid inside and core support in and out. The exterior I left to him. If you can find a guy who does the work on the side like i did you can probably get a good price.

Just remember you get choices:
1. Cheap
2. Fast
3. Good

Pick 2....thats all you get.

 

[steve from staten island]

If you look at the economics of running a shop that might be a give away why shops take so long to do a restoration on a car. Unless i hit the lottery i'll never farm out body work and paint again. Id have to know the guy personally before i did that. What i would do if i ever get a shop would be to hire a guy for a days pay. I happen to know that that arrangement would work for me. If i didn't like the guys work i just wouldn't call him back,id never have to worry about anybody holding my car because of a disagreement

 

[Budnicks]

Just remember you get choices:
1. Cheap
2. Fast
3. Good

Pick 2....thats all you get.

Isn't that so true...LOL... I like that saying

 

[Donny]

500 dollar Blast job, run for Zee Hills! I'll tell you right up front, there is NO way in hell I'd ever do a 500 dollar blast job on a whole car, nix, nada, nein! To scale this down for you, each B Body door is about 90-125 bucks; shop/retail rates in my place, but, it's 100% clean outside AND inside (as far as I can bend the hose for access inside the door). You usually get what you pay for unless you're lucky and find an artist that gives his/her work away, but, then again, not too many artists are in business for any length of time.

 

[Bladecutter]

RACE TIGER RE: Santini

Early Rides.....i've worked with Pete in past on a couple different occassions doing cut & buffs on the kustoms. He engineered a nice magazine article for me in the now defunct Auto Graphics Aug/Sept 1997 as Jimi Buff-it...4 pager, big color photos with captions written by Pete. I did an aluminum sculpture that is named for Pete...."the Santini" "Master of the Painted Flame Lick" The piece on the GTO hood is "the Bettie Frances Mangusta 1148" which is actually being presented to Pete very soon. 8MA-1148 was my Mangusta....Bettie Frances is my Mother. *dates on photos are incorrect...these were last year*

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"The Smell of Work Poorly Done Lingers Far Longer Than the Taste of a Sweet Deal" *unknown* The expectations of what body shops are supposed to do are unrealistic due to a complete misunderstanding of applied science versus exact science....and.......F-ING Insurance companies controlling the flat rates...and.....NO TIME,,,no supplements......materials MUST have GENEROUS cure windows BEFORE working and and stacking something else on top.....POST - CURE......it is impossible to do a good paint job in two weeks,...it will SHRINK....can't be done, i don't care WHO it may be, sure ain't moi' accelerated workpace can also cause solvent lock,,,and then you're really screwed when the **** starts swelling...oy vey'

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I pretty much stay away from blasting altogether....i prefer a slow flat grind w/ 36 g on a firm but flexible 7" back plate to strip, then i use the material i'm stripping as guide coat to hi-lite lows, naval jelly, acid & scuff pad on the manual stuff. the 36 gives excellent teeth for the initial base over bare metal and the build primer is not going to shrink in if it's good quality 2 part and is used wisely, giving GENEROUS CURE TIME!

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Racetiger...if You are going to put the car in prime and leave it for a spell...my suggestion as initial material would be PPG DP-40 Epoxy.....very good etching properties...can be shot thin as a sealer, or can be shot rich in multiple coats for use as build primer(i reccomend Axis Urethane for builder), But the DP's hold out against weather, without anything applied over it, is remarkable...it will seal out the elements until You can make the next leap.

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Early Rides....my BaDD...i was posting to You but i ended up addressing Racetiger in post...i know i clicked Your reply button ...so just look at the spiel i addressed Racetiger with...part one I know Pete Santini, have worked with Him in past...see the sculpture i named for Him.....jimi buff-it