built 440 running a bit hot....still

[Jtucker66]

10.1 compression .030 440. came out of a 1977 motorhome. its been tanked so im sure all passages are nice.
dual quad 500 performers
champion 4 core 26 inch radiator factory mopar shroud and a flexalite solid mechanical fan.
160 degree thermostat
new mopar performance high flow water pump
front support is cut all the way for the entire radiator to be used.


the opening of the shroud is 20 inches and the fan is 18.25 inches. the fan is less than one inch from the radiator and is centered in the shroud.

i would say that the fan sticks out the back of the shroud(engine side) enough.

the timing is set at idle 12 degrees and still needs to be taken to the dyno to be fine tuned.

the car ran extremely hot with a 22 inc radiator we tried. it got up to about 235 by the time i got back from a test drive. ouch.

with the new 26 inch radiator and shroud the car ran about 200 to 205 for about an hour and through the neighborhood on the way home it hit 210. this was a 75 degree day and still just doesnt seem righr. at least im not in the danger zone but still......

thanks for any input.

 

[ga66mopar]

I'm running a 10.1 compression in my 440 with a small cam, headers, intake in my 66 belvedere with the stock 22 inch rad and no fan shroud and it doesn't run hot. So I don't think the fan shroud and rad is the problem. I have about 1000 miles on mine since being built. I've had it in heavy traffic in the summer and didn't run hot. I'm running the mopar performance clutch fan kit. I have been meaning to install a fan shroud and I sure if I had air cond I would have too. I also have a standard water pump from a 77 new yorker. I wonder if you have correct size pulleys?

 

[Jtucker66]

what are the sizes supposed to be?

 

[twinscrew698]

Make sure the Lower Hose has a spring in it!!!

 

[Jtucker66]

Make sure the Lower Hose has a spring in it!!!

woah. please expand on this...

my radiator has a driverside outlet on the bottom and the hose runs under the harmonic balancer and to the water pump housing on the passenger side....is this a problem? are all 44s like this or is it because I got it out of an RV?

 

[WileE]

IIRC, the RV block water pump is different, & the MP water pump may be the cause of your condition. Typical BB/RB water pump inlet is on the driver side. I'd swap the water pump for the RV type.

 

[Jtucker66]

ok so now heres where its at...

i have a 440 source water pump housing with a milodon pump that has way bigger blades than the MP pump. it now has the correct lower hose locations.

i bought an extra 160 degree t-stat and boiled them in water on the stove and they both opened at the same time, so i know its working properly.

the guage goes to 210 after a few minutes of driving after a cold start and within 5 seconds drops to 200 and stays there whether im stopped cruising or mashing on it. i can nearly rest my hand on the radiator after i stop. im convinced that its running cooler than the guage reads, and the temp sensor is needing replaced. i may have accidentally used the big block temp sensor as opposed to the one that was in the original 318(original to the guage).

ill try another sensor but i really do think its running just fine.

with the other 22 inch rads i tried it never acted as if a t-stat opened, it just kept climbing..

thanks for all the replies and help. off to the dyno now.

 

[oldbee]

Sensors should be all the same,I think. EXCEPT-there is one for a gauge AND one for an idiot light. I don't remember what happens if you get the wrong one. Sure can't be 220deg. if you can lay your hand on the top of the radiator. Good luck

 

[ga66mopar]

You should read this.
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,60599.0.html

I bought one of the alum 440 source water pump housing too. After reading this post i compared the new housing water ports to an original housing. I was surprised how much smaller the water ports were on the 440 source piece. I ordered a new alum housing from Mancini and the ports were the same as the old cast piece. I haven't had any overheating problems.
440 source wouldn't take their piece back.


"So, based on these results and close inspection of the 440 Source waterpump housing it's safe to assume that there is a major design flaw. If anybody is running this piece and has noticed increased temps and overheating you now know where to look. I have to give Kudo's to Dwayne for pointing me in the right direction. I hadn't considered that there was a problem with the design of this part because it visually looks good and i just assumed that the internal dimensions would be identical if not superior to the stock housing.....this is absolutely not the case."

 

[Ralph Cali]

Memebers, i had the same problem with the 440 source pump and housing. Did not work for my application.
I now use the Mopar performance pump and housing and temps are good.
you can see the difference in the housing passages
Ralph

 

[Cranky]

Is this the China Syndrome biting our asses again?

 

[70rr-brian]

Is this the China Syndrome biting our asses again?

I hear ya. But to be fair, its not like the Chinese couldn't make a decent part if they wanted to. Its the cheap *** American companies that outsource there that demand inferior, cost effective, junk materials with sloppy tolerances to maximize profits.

 

[Jtucker66]

Well when I changed from mp pump and factory housing to a milodon pump and 440 source housing all problems are solved. I now have the correct sensor and it runs 160 all day long. The 440source housing looks good to me and apparently works haha.

 

[Jtucker66]

Got the right sensor now. It runs up to 165 then stays at 161 all day long.

 

[Cranky]

Why are you running it cold for? Oil is designed to run 180 and hotter. Also, every Mopar I've had runs better and get better fuel mileage running 180+. Yeah, running too hot isn't cool but you don't gain anything running on the cool side.

 

[Cranky]

I hear ya. But to be fair, its not like the Chinese couldn't make a decent part if they wanted to. Its the cheap *** American companies that outsource there that demand inferior, cost effective, junk materials with sloppy tolerances to maximize profits.

There's nothing fair about China producing products for American consumption but even when American companies demand a better product and pay for it, they still get inferior products and the Chinese pocket the money...but not to hijack the thread...

 

[Jtucker66]

I will go buy a 180 or 190 t stat then.thanks so much fr the input. this forum is so much more helpful than the oldschool nissan/Z forums im used to. sorry if those words aren't aloud here haha.

 

[oldbee]

Jtuck---nissan(?)--Well ,I have a Hyundai also & I love it. At least, you have a Mopar!!!!