Buy a finished BEE or one in progress to finish yourself??

[Fireslayer]

OK, I'm new to the forum and some of you have probably posted on a couple of my past threads. I'm in a dilemma that is driveing me crazy. My wife has given me her input but has ultimately put it on my shoulders. I am at odds as to buy a "finished" or nearly finished nice driver or buy a car that's in the works. The car at hand is a 69 BEE, original 4 speed car, N96, 383, with fender tag, VIN plate and clear title. Pretty much my dream car from the ramcharger hood to the four speed and ORIGINAL bucket seats--console is gone.

The car is "in progress" right now and I don't have pics. I have seen the car and all the parts that go with it. I'm going to best describe the car and "me" and I will read all opinions very seriously. I want to buy this car BADLY but the adult in me telling me to cool my jets. Then the kid in me speaks up and tells me that this is THE CAR that I want--finished or unfinished and I have the funds to buy it right now.

The car is getting the body work done right now from an "old timer" body man who works out of his home garage. I've seen pics and cars of work he has done for a middle man and it's very good. He has put in new rear quarters, trunk extension, rockers and fixed one spot on a door with welding in a new piece. The car is going to be dual action sanded "DA'd" and shot in primer, ready for blocking and paint. He also welding in a patch on the floor (4 x 6") and one in the rear wheel well (4 x 6"). Neither was butt welding, both were just partially overlapped with spot welds from what I can tell. The car has a new rear valance and trunk pan. The rest of the frame is fine and neither it or the engine compartment has been sandblasted or media blasted. It looks typical for the car but not terrible by any means.

All glass is "good" very driver quality. Bumpers need rechromeing or replaced but they are very solid cores with minimal surface rust. Grill is fine as is chrome trim and rear lights, ect. Interior has original green buckets (F8 body) but NO CONSOLE. Dash is very restorable and not bad at all as is. All wireing harness included. It needs new door panels, carpet, and seats recovered. It has a hurst shifter, NO TRANNY. Rear end is stock sure grip, spins freely. Motor is date correct 383, non-numbers matchings--also have the correct bell houseing and tranny crossmemeber. Everything else under the hood is there and included. It has the original magnum wheels. Price is $7,000 and I'm sitting on my hands and it's not advertised yet.

With the body done, minus blocking and paint, I think I'll need another $3K for a good paint job. That puts me at $10K and still needing interior work, tranny, motor, wheels, tires, and all the miscellaneous stuff that will add up. I think I'll be at $20K when I'm done and I won't be "numbers" matching. Nor will I have had the the undercarriage sandblasted. I would most likely wire wheel it myself and paint it with the engine compartment too.

I have a big three car garage. I have "big" tools but not air tools. I don't have a cherry picker but I can buy this stuff cheap on craigslist and then resell it if needed. I am pretty mechanically inclined but not an outirght mechanic. I would hire out the motor build and paint job and I would install everything myself. My wife would rather see me buy a "finished" car but it's up to me. I have two young kids, 4 and 6 months, who often "distract" me!!!

The pros with buying a finished car are: It's done and can be enjoyed now, more time with family, doesn't tie up garage, and I can work on my days off (firefighter full time) instead of working on the car. Pros to buying THIS CAR: I get to finished it how I want it and I will know exactly how everything was done. I don't have to worry about bubbleing paint three years down the road. Less money up front as my wife is in nurseing school. This car is exactly what I want minus the color. Of course the negatives would be the exact opposite of the PROS.

So, for all of you who have restored your own or have bought a finished one. Can you please give me your opinion as if you would or wouldn't do it again and why? Please feel free to comment about the car, price of the car, and what you'd do if you were me. I figured you guys would know better than any! Thanks so much....

 

[69 Runner]

One thing about a "done" car. Unless you know the restoration history of it, you have no idea of what kind of work (and quality of work) was done to it. On the other hand, a "done" car might be cheaper.

BUT

A car you do (or have done) yourself is one you will have fewer questions about. And doing it the way you want HOW you want should give you a "warm and fuzzy"

 

[Fireslayer]

There's a lot of truth to what you are saying and this is what tugs at me termendously. I think, "$7K, OK it's a chunk of money but I will only cry once." I look back at the cars I passed up 20 years ago, in high school, and i want to cry now. (I did have a very nicely built 70 Mustang coupe, BTW).

Like I told my wife, once I have it I will always have it. Yes, I would like something to drive now but knowing I have it and I'll be able to drive in the next 2-4 years is enough for now. The warm and fuzzy is without a doubt and I do like to turn wrenches when I have the time. Nonetheless, I'd rather be washing it, waxing it, and driveing it!

I guess there's a fear of haveing more money invested than what I can get out of it. There's also the fear of "speed bumps" that will undoubtely occur with any resto job. The fear of spending more than I anticpated. I guess I'm the type of guy who won't buy something, like this, unless it's a no-brainer and I can't get my money out of my pocket fast enough. The problem is there aren't many 68-70 b bodies floating around anymore. Heck, I don't even remember many 20 years ago for that matter.

So will I kick myself later? Most likely! I will end up kicking myself for NOT buying it or kick myself two years down the road FOR buying it. Ok, as you can see I'm still on the fence after the first reply so please keep the posts coming.......

I agree with Runner, But if you have seen this guys work and he has a good reputation, then go for it.

The unfinished car is in progress right now and I have seen the new quarters, filler, patch around window, and on the door. Trunk pan is still being put it. Fenders are perfect and in primer and they needed nothing.

I'm contemplateing buying this car and finishing it myself or buying a car that's already done or very close in the $15-20K range.

I see it like buying a new car, I guess. You'll never get what you paid for it after you drove it off the lot--even the next day. I'm thinking I can buy a really nice b-body in this price range but couldn't build one myself for the same money. I'm guessing $20K by the time I finish being I'm starting out with a $7K purchase price.

 

[Fireslayer]

69 Runner,

What do you think of the price? I was thinking it's a little high being the console is missing and so is the air cleaner assembly for the ramcharger. All the rest of the ramcharger is there, including hood scoops.

I know body work is expensive and this guy is doing a very good job. His past cars look great. I know the body parts have cost around $1000 plus shipping, give or take a few dollars.

 

[alleyoopmgv]

One thing about a "done" car. Unless you know the restoration history of it, you have no idea of what kind of work (and quality of work) was done to it. On the other hand, a "done" car might be cheaper.

BUT

A car you do (or have done) yourself is one you will have fewer questions about. And doing it the way you want HOW you want should give you a "warm and fuzzy"

I agree with Runner, But if you have seen this guys work and he has a good reputation, then go for it.

 

[Suicide_Scott]

I would say buy a solid ready to drive daily driver and hold out for a real smoking good deal, then spend some time improving it as you so desire. This way you get your feet wet but still get to have time and have fun. Nothing is better than driving them!

OK, but then on your second car get a double bagger cheap and get to work!

Every time I go work on one of my cars I feel like I am in a state of zen bliss. I am sure some here know what I mean.

Oh and get some air tools. An air cutter with guard from harbor freight is $8! It will cut up your body panels and frame like butter.

I am hooked on air tools. Nothing is sweeter than removing axle bolts with an air socket.

Cheers.

 

[696pack]

I don't like the sounds of overlapping body metal. Just a place for moisture to trap and eventually blow out the filler that HAS to be used in that kind of repair.

What ever you ESTIMATE for finish cost and triple it and it will be closer to your REAL cost. You just won't believe how much hidden cost there is in one of these jobs and one thing leads to another.

The vast majority of people loose money on the sale of their "dream car" especially in times like this. You may like the Green color but it is not very popular. You need to find the guy that restored his car with the intentions of "never selling it." You may have to travel across the country to find "your" car but there are a lot of deals out there right now. A 383 4 speed ram air Super Bee is not that hard to find. I am betting that there are a lot of them out there right now that can be had for less than what you will end up in this car a year later. You could be enjoying it NOW rather than skinning knuckles and spending all of you off time finishing this car.

Other than Ebay here is just one web site that has several for sale right now.

http://www.cars-on-line.com/dodge.html

 

[69 Runner]

I was going to mention the overlapping metal like Darryl pointed out, but I think you said that was just in some small patches and not the quarters. That right?

The console will probably cost more than the breather. A trans and shifter will cost more than the console. And don't worry about "speed bumps". There WILL be speed bumps, and it will cost more than you think.

BUT.....if it's THE car, then none of that matters. And as far as having more in it than you can get out of it goes, don't look at it from that perspective. Personally, I believe the prices will go back up (I was right about that after the first price "crash"). So there really isn't much tellin what the value of the car will be when finished.

That is the issue I have with people trying to give me 383 money for my Hemi project. In today's market it is worth about 80% more (finished) than the restoration would cost. And if it took a while, that might be back up to a number closer to 200% more.

guess people think I'm stupid

The price he's asking is probably in line IF he pays 100% of the body bill up to this point.

 

[CtownChris]

It sounds like lots of work to enjoy your "project car" it may cost you quality family time that you can not get back as the kids are young only once.

I have a project that runs and drives. I have grown attached to it because I am personally involved in every aspect of its upgrades (restoration)

Thinking back I'd buy a done car and finance the balance of the difference between the cash I had to buy my project car and buy a DONE car.

Unless you spend top shelf money for a Barret Jackson type restoration car I bet any done car will not be perfect and you can put your stamp on it.

Being in a project car Now I wish I bought a done car.
I'd rather be driving it then looking at it in the garage every month or two waiting for a friend to help me with the next phase.
just my thoughts.

Good luck what ever you do.

 

[Fireslayer]

Lots of great responses and advice so far--thank you very much! I spoke with the car owner again last night and also did some more math for what I think I'd have in it. If it goes anything like building my own house went, I'll surely need an extra 10% set aside to add on top of my "best estimate".

I think I'm going to watch the market for a restored car or nearly finished car. I'd like to be able to enjoy a nice classic car while I'm still "young"--I'm 36 btw. My 4 1/2 year old son loves hot rods and monster trucks at this point in his life. I'd really like to go cruising with him, in a nice classic, while he's still at this fun age. My wife is fine with me partially financeing a finished car as long as I stay under $20K--cool wife, huh? She'd be even cooler if she worked full-time:rolling:. Thanks again for the advice. You guys have a great bunch around here.

 

[Meep-Meep]

Having done a few cars myself, I can say that you need to be focused and minimize distractions if you don't want to end up as one of the guys selling a partially completed project. Or if you don't sell it it will become a 10 yr restoration. Taking into account the information you posted about yourself, I would have to agree with some of the other posts that say "get a done car" or at least one requiring minimal work. I also agree that no matter what you get you will want to diddle with something, but the diddling should be limited to minor projects. Your cool wife (definitely a keeper!) and kids will want to spend more time riding in it and going to shows than seeing it in the garage collecting dust (or making dust). Getting a done car also means you should inspect it carefully and bring a second set of experienced eyes with you. I hate to see people get screwed on a crappy car flipper type resto. Your MoPar family is here to help.

 

[70ACBEE]

Add 1 vote for "done" car. Although, I'm not sure what all this talk is about a "done" car. If you ask nearly any mopar guy their project is never "done."

Story of a Not Done Car:
I got a 68 Dart GTS project car when I was in high school. My parents shelled out 3000 dollars to keep my friends and myself at home every weeknight and most weekends. They knew we'd always be in the garage working on it. I took every nut bolt and piece of metal off that car. Had it media blasted sanded and a fresh coat of primer shot and minimal body work done. Had the motor machined, threw in some new axles etc... I/we've got 8k invested into it and it still doesn't have any parts bolted back onto it. I got so disheartened at the costs to progress ratio on the project that I had to put it away for a while with the attitude that I'll do it myself someday. So once I buy a mig box/compressor/spray gun/air tools I'll someday get to that dart.

Story of a Done Car:
Fast forward, I'm now 28, married no kids, 2 car garage, the dart sits in a trailer at my office all cozy and snug to be finished on day... Meanwhile my dream car sits in the garage. 1970 super bee. I bought it "done." It was "done" about 10 years ago and sat, only being moved 100 miles / year since then w/ 85k original miles on the clock. So even though it was "done", I've had to do the breaks, the gas tank, sending unit, motor mount, shocks, fuel pump, alternator, ignition, ...

My point is, if you want to tinker you'll get to do so on a "done" car, but you can also drive and enjoy it in between projects. Most "done" cars that are highly desirable yet affordable by most folks who plan to drive them will end up needing another restoration someday 10 or 15 years...

I say buy a done one, enjoy the car, get to know the car and when you have bonded with it you can eventually tackle the restoration or modifications and have the motivation to do so. My bee isn't EXACTLY the bee I wanted but it's the closest thing that I could find/afford in 10 years of drooling over ebay adds and mopar nats car corrals.

I haven't painted the dart yet but I feel guilty when I think about changing the color from stock. So do some thinking about buying the done car before you do. Either way you go at least your buying at the exact right time. These things are as cheap as they are going to get for a LONG time to come. Good luck !!!!

 

[moparstuart]

If you have the money buy a done car , this is a great buyers market . Also you can enjoy the car now. Buy one local if possible you can have checked out . Restorations always get drug out with complications and alot of people get ripped off.

 

[res1vw21]

Another vote for a "done" car I have done nothing but restorations and it is a long drawn out proses that costs a lot more in the long run then buying something that someone else put there money in. Get something you can drive and go from there.

I got my aspen when I was 9 and have driven it for a total of 2 weeks when I was 17, I am 21 now and it is still apart waiting for paint. It probably doesn't help that I have built a few other cars in the mean time but my point is other unforeseen things get in the way.