Cold Case electric fans

[TexasRoadRunner68]

Anybody running the cold case electric fan setups? Do the dual 12s pull enough cfm to work well? I’m in Texas and will want to add ac to my stroker motor.

 

[diesel_lv]

Why electric? Run 496" stroker, 610hp/670tq, in AZ w summer temps 120+. A/C vent temps 40 at idle n 36 cruising. Mechanical 19" fan w factory shroud. These cars were designed just fine even w high cubic inch high hp engines. Don't reinvent the wheel.

 

[pnora]

My 528 Hemi with A/C keeps cool on 90 plus days.

 

[TexasRoadRunner68]

My 528 Hemi with A/C keeps cool on 90 plus days.

With electric or mechanical fan?

 

[pnora]

With electric or mechanical fan?

Electric. Pictures are in one of your a/c posts.

 

[Sweet5ltr]

Anybody running the cold case electric fan setups? Do the dual 12s pull enough cfm to work well? I’m in Texas and will want to add ac to my stroker motor.

It's a big case of amperage. I can tell you, most 'effective' fans are going to draw somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 - 40 amps continuous and up to 65-amps starting. Sort of a 'red flag' when you don't see detailed specs shown on a product page.

I'd look into an OEM fan, something like the Lincoln MK VIII.
The Big Chill: A Budget Approach to a Big Electric Fan that Really Works
I'd wire it up using two continuous duty, 200A solenoids (that are replaceable at any NAPA auto parts store or similar). The first would be triggered with a relay that ran the 'low' speed setting (12V source when the key is in the run position), and the second, using a temperature controlled relay around 195-200* coolant temp.

I also believe a Chevrolet HHR fan is a direct fit for our OEM radiator. This is the fan I was looking into years ago.

OEM electric fans are always the better choice. If your fan fails, anywhere in the country you can find one of the two above at a local auto-parts store. OEM fans rarely fail, and it would be difficult to recommend any aftermarket fan, outside of SPAL.

 

[davek]

A member with a stroker engine went threw this and it was a nightmare for him. I agree dont reinvent the wheel. @biomedtechguy I believe it was and he has a wright up on it.

 

[biomedtechguy]

A member with a stroker engine went threw this and it was a nightmare for him. I agree dont reinvent the wheel. @biomedtechguy I believe it was and he has a wright up on it.

This is a long post, but there's no way I know how to edit it and be fair in my report.
I had TWO Cold Case radiators. I still have one in my Roadrunner.
I'm not going to blame the Cold Case radiator in my Roadrunner for this "anomaly" BUT it may be blameworthy.
I completely changed over in BOTH
the 421 Tripower in the GTO and the 440 6bbl in my Roadrunner: Belts/accessories/water pumps AND went to CVF Wraptor serpentine belt and accessories systems, PLUS added the CVF AC compressor (because it actually looks great) and the rest of the AC is Vintage Air, including the AC condenser.
The first thing I'll say is I believe in the concept of "change ONE thing at a time" because if something goes 'worng' it's likely the one thing you changed. I don't see how holding to that premise is possible with the systems we wanted installed. At best, I could have kept my factory 26" radiator BUT it had some mild issues, a couple of the vertical "thin water columns" were twisted into a coil at the very bottom of the radiator. I had a local shop boil it out, but when I picked it up dry, and I turned it over, it sounded like a Pachinko machine:

from flakes of rust and hard particles still in it....I wanted to change the radiator out anyway, and the design and engineering concepts of the Cold Case radiators is something I agree with, and many aftermarket, high performance radiator manufacturers do the same/similar: Larger diameter tubes, but less rows. Aluminum for rapid temperature exchange. If that engineering didn't work compared to the "old school" small tubes, more cores, we would know. (If y'all disagree I welcome other perspectives)
The CVF Wraptor water pumps are both very high quality materials and designs. No stamped impeller, and I believe they rotate a bit faster than stock. I don't think that the water pumps being "CVF style" is a problem in either car, BUT Pontiac has a really strange design that the CVF unit had to copy. There's an "anticavitation" plate sandwiched between the forward pump housing and the engine side half. After Butler Performance alerted me to ('common knowledge' among Pontiac owners) the requirement of that dome shaped anticavitation plate needing to be a tiny fraction of an inch from the pump impeller or problems will result with cavitation and reduced pump efficiency, I told the installer that and emphasized its importance, and he assured me he measured the clearance,
BUT
I am not confident that the plate is close enough to the impeller, and I'm also at the point where I'm almost out of other reasons why her 421 runs hotter than it should, and way hotter than I'm ok with.
The Cold Case "dual electric fans with aluminum shroud assembly" that was an option for our radiators was installed on my Roadrunner after the single, TWO-SPEED 17" "We only carry this brand (Cooling Components Brand) because my thousands of customers have never had any problems with them" endorsement from the vendor I bought everything from (other than her American Powertrain TKO-600). "Everything" for both of our cars in this MAJOR "checking off almost ALL of the boxes" purchase being over $10k worth. He sells a LOT of car products to a LOT of people, so he "should" know. The 2 speed fan works on regular speed by a 12V input, and when you activate the 2ND 12V circuit, 24V total, you are in high speed. I got top quality low voltage RELAYS to act as the switches, so the higher voltage and current (especially on start up) was routed in the widely accepted "Best/Only way"
I BURNED UP...SMOKED THREE of those "no problems ever" fan motors!
I had filled and drained my Cold Case radiator at least 6 to 8 times over the multiple attempts and configurations of my cooling FAN(s) system, and right at the end, all of a sudden my Dakota Digital RTX series system was showing a SPIKE of high water temp, and then it would drop nearly as fast as it spiked. The thing is, I believe IF the coolant temps were over 280°F I would have had other symptoms, and the temp wouldn't be able to drop back down to 180 in 60 seconds!!
I had problems with the 421 Tripower in the GTO running hot from the day I picked it up from the shop that did so many systems replacements and installations, and the 440 6bbl in my Roadrunner as well, so NEITHER car kept the Cold Case dual fans+shroud assembly. I installed the GM factory clutch fan with about ¾" clearance to the Cold Case radiator in the GTO, but apparently the fan clutch must make it expand forward when at or over the heat level it reached and the fan clutch "spokes" chewed a nice, symmetrical circle in the Cold Case radiator, so I got $18 from the metal scrap yard for that $2XX⁰⁰ expense...
As the 2 cars sit now, (BOTH still need a better solution, but I think I'm 95% there on the 440 6bbl) I have the same Cold Case radiator in my Roadrunner that I started out with, TWO 11" SPAL brand (the BEST and highest % brand chosen in classic muscle cars BY FAR, IMHO) pusher fans, each hooked up to the dual relay setup I've had from the start, and ZERO problems with them. I also have a "compact blade" type aluminum flex fan, and I have a factory style fan shroud that I'm 99% sure will fit.
The GTO? I hate to say it, but I am likely going to have to uninstall and move around all kinds of components in order to get to the water pump and then check the clearance of that anticavitation plate, and make darn sure it is shaped and tweaked and reassembled to where the gap that is so important to be "tight" is as tight as I can get it. I do want another aluminum radiator for the GTO, I'm just not sure if I will get a Cold Case again or try another brand.

 

[biomedtechguy]

It's a big case of amperage. I can tell you, most 'effective' fans are going to draw somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 - 40 amps continuous and up to 65-amps starting. Sort of a 'red flag' when you don't see detailed specs shown on a product page.

I'd look into an OEM fan, something like the Lincoln MK VIII.
The Big Chill: A Budget Approach to a Big Electric Fan that Really Works
I'd wire it up using two continuous duty, 200A solenoids (that are replaceable at any NAPA auto parts store or similar). The first would be triggered with a relay that ran the 'low' speed setting (12V source when the key is in the run position), and the second, using a temperature controlled relay around 195-200* coolant temp.

I also believe a Chevrolet HHR fan is a direct fit for our OEM radiator. This is the fan I was looking into years ago.
View attachment 1450022
OEM electric fans are always the better choice. If your fan fails, anywhere in the country you can find one of the two above at a local auto-parts store. OEM fans rarely fail, and it would be difficult to recommend any aftermarket fan, outside of SPAL.

Overall the quoted post is great, and hits a few critical points right on target!
My experience is with my factory bore and stroke 440 6bbl and the rebuilt, .035 over 421 Tripower in my wife's GTO.
I had so many problems with trying to run a single 17 or 18" TWO speed electric fan, from "Cooling Components" brand, a brand that the vendor that my wife and I had dropped over $10k with all at once, who definitely has a large, wide customer base and is very knowledgeable, and he swore by "the brand's trouble free reputation" as the reason why he doesn't carry any other brands...
After I smoked the motor in THREE of them, over the course of 2 days, I had to find another solution. The previous post I made goes into more detail on TWO different cars we have.
I was so traumatized with the fallout from having three of those fans fail and SMOKE, during the week of Cruisin the Coast, robbing me of some of the most treasured time my wife and I make for ourselves each year, usually the ONLY time we make for fun, I don't know if I will ever trust an electric fan to be my primary cooling fan ever again (other than a factory setup from head to tail).

 

[RJRENTON]

This is a long post, but there's no way I know how to edit it and be fair in my report.
I had TWO Cold Case radiators. I still have one in my Roadrunner.
I'm not going to blame the Cold Case radiator in my Roadrunner for this "anomaly" BUT it may be blameworthy.
I completely changed over in BOTH
the 421 Tripower in the GTO and the 440 6bbl in my Roadrunner: Belts/accessories/water pumps AND went to CVF Wraptor serpentine belt and accessories systems, PLUS added the CVF AC compressor (because it actually looks great) and the rest of the AC is Vintage Air, including the AC condenser.
The first thing I'll say is I believe in the concept of "change ONE thing at a time" because if something goes 'worng' it's likely the one thing you changed. I don't see how holding to that premise is possible with the systems we wanted installed. At best, I could have kept my factory 26" radiator BUT it had some mild issues, a couple of the vertical "thin water columns" were twisted into a coil at the very bottom of the radiator. I had a local shop boil it out, but when I picked it up dry, and I turned it over, it sounded like a Pachinko machine:

from flakes of rust and hard particles still in it....I wanted to change the radiator out anyway, and the design and engineering concepts of the Cold Case radiators is something I agree with, and many aftermarket, high performance radiator manufacturers do the same/similar: Larger diameter tubes, but less rows. Aluminum for rapid temperature exchange. If that engineering didn't work compared to the "old school" small tubes, more cores, we would know. (If y'all disagree I welcome other perspectives)
The CVF Wraptor water pumps are both very high quality materials and designs. No stamped impeller, and I believe they rotate a bit faster than stock. I don't think that the water pumps being "CVF style" is a problem in either car, BUT Pontiac has a really strange design that the CVF unit had to copy. There's an "anticavitation" plate sandwiched between the forward pump housing and the engine side half. After Butler Performance alerted me to ('common knowledge' among Pontiac owners) the requirement of that dome shaped anticavitation plate needing to be a tiny fraction of an inch from the pump impeller or problems will result with cavitation and reduced pump efficiency, I told the installer that and emphasized its importance, and he assured me he measured the clearance,
BUT
I am not confident that the plate is close enough to the impeller, and I'm also at the point where I'm almost out of other reasons why her 421 runs hotter than it should, and way hotter than I'm ok with.
The Cold Case "dual electric fans with aluminum shroud assembly" that was an option for our radiators was installed on my Roadrunner after the single, TWO-SPEED 17" "We only carry this brand (Cooling Components Brand) because my thousands of customers have never had any problems with them" endorsement from the vendor I bought everything from (other than her American Powertrain TKO-600). "Everything" for both of our cars in this MAJOR "checking off almost ALL of the boxes" purchase being over $10k worth. He sells a LOT of car products to a LOT of people, so he "should" know. The 2 speed fan works on regular speed by a 12V input, and when you activate the 2ND 12V circuit, 24V total, you are in high speed. I got top quality low voltage RELAYS to act as the switches, so the higher voltage and current (especially on start up) was routed in the widely accepted "Best/Only way"
I BURNED UP...SMOKED THREE of those "no problems ever" fan motors!
I had filled and drained my Cold Case radiator at least 6 to 8 times over the multiple attempts and configurations of my cooling FAN(s) system, and right at the end, all of a sudden my Dakota Digital RTX series system was showing a SPIKE of high water temp, and then it would drop nearly as fast as it spiked. The thing is, I believe IF the coolant temps were over 280°F I would have had other symptoms, and the temp wouldn't be able to drop back down to 180 in 60 seconds!!
I had problems with the 421 Tripower in the GTO running hot from the day I picked it up from the shop that did so many systems replacements and installations, and the 440 6bbl in my Roadrunner as well, so NEITHER car kept the Cold Case dual fans+shroud assembly. I installed the GM factory clutch fan with about ¾" clearance to the Cold Case radiator in the GTO, but apparently the fan clutch must make it expand forward when at or over the heat level it reached and the fan clutch "spokes" chewed a nice, symmetrical circle in the Cold Case radiator, so I got $18 from the metal scrap yard for that $2XX⁰⁰ expense...
As the 2 cars sit now, (BOTH still need a better solution, but I think I'm 95% there on the 440 6bbl) I have the same Cold Case radiator in my Roadrunner that I started out with, TWO 11" SPAL brand (the BEST and highest % brand chosen in classic muscle cars BY FAR, IMHO) pusher fans, each hooked up to the dual relay setup I've had from the start, and ZERO problems with them. I also have a "compact blade" type aluminum flex fan, and I have a factory style fan shroud that I'm 99% sure will fit.
The GTO? I hate to say it, but I am likely going to have to uninstall and move around all kinds of components in order to get to the water pump and then check the clearance of that anticavitation plate, and make darn sure it is shaped and tweaked and reassembled to where the gap that is so important to be "tight" is as tight as I can get it. I do want another aluminum radiator for the GTO, I'm just not sure if I will get a Cold Case again or try another brand.

I feel your pain....trying to apply an aftermarket solution for a "real" situation is problematic at best, especially when operating conditions are relatively unknown. Specifically how much heat transfer is required and with a 15% safety factor in capacity is impossible to determine, without knowing the worst case conditions. Its not how much HP the engine produces as some people state...:" my stroked hemi develops 800+ hp", for example, as hopefully 75% of the developed HP is used to motivate the vehicle and not directed to the radiator or cooling system as reject heat measured as BTU's/hr.

Thermodynamics is an exact science, involving heat balance calculations. The heat gain by the coolant as temperature in and out, the velocity of the coolant as it moves thru the heat source (engine) to the heat exchanger (radiator), the velocity it's moving through the system at, in terms of ft/second or gallons/minute, the specific heat characteristics of the coolant (the coolant's ability to absorb and release heat and the time factor required to do so) and the entering and exiting air temperature of the heat exchanger (radiator).
Ohe of the factors that causes or contributes to the difficulty in making a determination is the circulation rate of the coolant. The water pump speed varies as it effects the flow rate. It would be great if the pump ran at a constant speed but it does not. Another factor is the air temperature entering the radiator (or heat exchanger) also is changing depending of location and time of day.

Without some assumptions combined with actual neasured values, including total surface area of the heat exchanger (fadiator) known, the "solution or recommendation" is only a guess, at best. The purchaser should inquire of the supplier, for a copy his calculations or at the very least, a determination of the basis for his recommendation. If the purchaser does not ask for calcs, then ask for a written guarantee of performance.... and your recourse if it does not perform as expected...Just my opinion of course.....
BOB RENTON