Correct starter

[rww124]

Well it seems I'm pretty much back to square one in locating a starter that will fit my 440 with 2 1/8 TTI step headers with proper clearance for air circulation. Called a few local places who sell and/or rebuild starters with every one giving a different starter type and tried these without success. The latest now is that a 2005 to 2008 Dodge Ram 1500 5.7 liter with manual transmission will fit with starter/solenoid clearance so now have that one on order. I'm pretty much at the point of taking the TTIs off and cutting them up then just put on a set of factory HP manifolds which will have tons of starter clearance.

 

[WileE]

What does TTI tell you ? I've used Hooker comps and super comps on various engines, and never had a starter non-fit issue.

 

[rww124]

What does TTI tell you ? I've used Hooker comps and super comps on various engines, and never had a starter non-fit issue.

TTI isn't going to tell you to buy a different brand of header to remedy starter clearance. When I spoke to a tech. at TTI they said when TTI first started making headers they test fitted several starters and found that the RobbMc fit the best although not guaranteed. TTI also said they are not about to retool their equipment to accommodate various starters. When TTI first started out the only RobbMc available was the Generation 1 which was replace by their generation 2 in 2011 which has different dimensions. It seems like these companies only care about selling the header and dumping any clearance problems on the customer. I know this will never happen but perhaps if enough customers boycotted TTI they would probably change their tune quickly.

 

[WileE]

TTI isn't going to tell you to buy a different brand of header to remedy starter clearance. When I spoke to a tech. at TTI they said when TTI first started making headers they test fitted several starters and found that the RobbMc fit the best although not guaranteed. TTI also said they are not about to retool their equipment to accommodate various starters. When TTI first started out the only RobbMc available was the Generation 1 which was replace by their generation 2 in 2011 which has different dimensions. It seems like these companies only care about selling the header and dumping any clearance problems on the customer. I know this will never happen but perhaps if enough customers boycotted TTI they would probably change their tune quickly.

Of course not. I was just asking what was their answer. And telling you what has been my experience for over 50+ years. What you're saying is that, they're selling headers that won't fit generally available starters ? I'm sure there's members here with TTI headers who could chime in. Unless configurations have changed in recent years, I'd installed headers on various makes and models and never installed a header which interfered with the starter. As to your view on TTI, I'd personally heard a few stories with "less than favorable" views on their product.

 

[rww124]

Of course not. I was just asking what was their answer. And telling you what has been my experience for over 50+ years. What you're saying is that, they're selling headers that won't fit generally available starters ? I'm sure there's members here with TTI headers who could chime in. Unless configurations have changed in recent years, I'd installed headers on various makes and models and never installed a header which interfered with the starter. As to your view on TTI, I'd personally heard a few stories with "less than favorable" views on their product.

TTIs are supposed to be a high end header, if the word is out there that TTI is crap I'm surprised people are still buying them.

 

[Michael_]

if the word is out there that TTI is crap I'm surprised people are still buying them.

You could say the same thing about mercedes. Good Advertising/Marketing.

 

[ruffcut]

I have those TTI headers on my 63 and I'm using a Summit Racing mini starter! Don't know what your problem is! I have that same starter on 3 different big blocks.

 

[pnora]

Well it seems I'm pretty much back to square one in locating a starter that will fit my 440 with 2 1/8 TTI step headers with proper clearance for air circulation. Called a few local places who sell and/or rebuild starters with every one giving a different starter type and tried these without success. The latest now is that a 2005 to 2008 Dodge Ram 1500 5.7 liter with manual transmission will fit with starter/solenoid clearance so now have that one on order. I'm pretty much at the point of taking the TTIs off and cutting them up then just put on a set of factory HP manifolds which will have tons of starter clearance.

So other starters fit but you want more air clearance? A very high percentage of guys with headers including TTI use the common mini starter off late 80's-90's v-6/v-8. Some require minor work depending on the block and terminals. Would be nice to see pictures of what you are fighting. I have never seen a fitment that could not use the common mini.

 

[4speed68rt]

I think all headers require a little massaging for clearance here and there. 50 year old toys, take a little ingenuity, that's what makes them fun. Lower your expectations and enjoy them for what they are.

 

[BeepBeepRR]

Simple answer 2000 Dodge Dakota 5.9 Starter.

 

[ruffcut]

As I said, I have the Summit Racing mini starter on 3 big blocks,( 400, 413, and 440 blocks) and all 3 have headers, 1 is hooker, and 2 are TTI. RUFFCUT No problems!!!!

 

[rww124]

So other starters fit but you want more air clearance? A very high percentage of guys with headers including TTI use the common mini starter off late 80's-90's v-6/v-8. Some require minor work depending on the block and terminals. Would be nice to see pictures of what you are fighting. I have never seen a fitment that could not use the common mini.

I currently have a RobbMc Generation 1 mini starter that was on the car when purchased and that starter touched the headers with the solenoid resting on one of the header tubes. The solenoid was re clocked to put the solenoid closer to the block for air clearance and one or two header tubes were compressed to make for a bit of clearance (a heat shield was put on the starter and some heat wrap on the header tubes were installed for additional heat protection). This starter would sometimes engage and others you would just hear a buzzing noise. This starter was bench tested bypassing the solenoid and the bendex threw out consistently so the starter and header were re installed however still gave the same results. As an afterthought the person who bench tested the starter said they should have tested the solenoid as well. The general consensus, not only with some members of this forum, but with some members of my local Mopar club and a few businesses that repair starters was generally a bad solenoid is the culprit for the intermittent starting/buzzing issues however prior to pulling the header for a second time the starter relay was tested to be good. A 1993 to 1997 Dodge Dakota starter was test fitted and was too large in diameter as well a Dodge Durango starter's Bendex wouldn't throw out far enough to engage the flywheel. Have recently learned that there is a difference in throw between an automatic and standard transmission so it's possible I was given a Durango starter for an automatic transmission however cannot say for sure. The starter was then disassembled to find the wishbone shaped fork that pivots to throw out the bendex assembly was broken in three places thus putting forward the question of the problem lying in the fork or bendex or perhaps both. RobbMc told me that any solenoid that fits a 1997 Corvette or Camaro (PG260) would be a substitute for the solenoid however when questioned if this wishbone piece would be the same replacement situation I was told it was not. Early last week I was told that a starter for a 2005 to 2008 Dodge Ram 1500 with 5.7 liter V8 and manual transmission is supposed to fit so that starter is now on order so unfortunately am still in the test fit situation. The person who had the car built put 440-218 step headers on the factory 440 Mopar block where TTI's site specifically states the 440-218s are not designed to fit 440 Source Stealth heads as the 440-218s are intended for raised port heads so am sure this mismatching of parts is contributing to my fitment issues. I am hoping that the Ram starter is the final answer to my problem as no one I have asked questions of have been in the exact same position as I. Unfortunately when both header and the only malfunctioning starter are installed you can barley see the starter even with the car up on a hoist so no pictures are available.

 

[dadsbee]

Have recently learned that there is a difference in throw between an automatic and standard transmission

Absolutely not....

 

[rww124]

I have those TTI headers on my 63 and I'm using a Summit Racing mini starter! Don't know what your problem is! I have that same starter on 3 different big blocks.

So you are not using raised port heads on a 1969 B Body Coronet in combination with the 440-218 TTIs? As per the TTI website the 440-218s are not designed to be compatible with 440 Source Stealth heads which are on my factory 440 block. Do you have a part number of this Summit mini starter so I can look into this avenue and did you have to do any block grinding to make this starter fit?

 

[rww124]

Absolutely not....

Are you referring to the difference in bendex throw between an automatic and manual transmission as the person at my local NAPA store said not only is there a part number difference but also when they looked at the two starters the nose was longer and narrower for a manual transmission.

 

[rww124]

I think all headers require a little massaging for clearance here and there. 50 year old toys, take a little ingenuity, that's what makes them fun. Lower your expectations and enjoy them for what they are.

A couple of header tubes were massaged to fit a first generation RobbMc mini starter however the Gen 1 was discontinued in 2011 when RobbMc put out their Gen. 2 which have different dimensions than the Gen. 1. The only ingenuity to make any starters that have been test fitted is to bash the hell out of them with a hammer to make clearances.

 

[ruffcut]

So you are not using raised port heads on a 1969 B Body Coronet in combination with the 440-218 TTIs? As per the TTI website the 440-218s are not designed to be compatible with 440 Source Stealth heads which are on my factory 440 block. Do you have a part number of this Summit mini starter so I can look into this avenue and did you have to do any block grinding to make this starter fit?

Yes I'm using those headers with Indy Cyl Head raised port heads on the 63 and no problems
SUM 820441 Summit brand starter

 

[SlinktRR]

Do you have to have 2 1/8" headers? 1 7/8" with a 3" collector will give good performance and any modern OE (Dakota) or aftermarket starter (powermaster) will easily fit. I wouldn't even consider going back to manifolds.

 

[rww124]

Yes I'm using those headers with Indy Cyl Head raised port heads on the 63 and no problems
SUM 820441 Summit brand starter

You misunderstood. I have non raised port heads (Source 440 Stealth) and 2 1/8 440-218 TTI step headers and am sure this mismatch is contributing if not the entire reason I am having header/starter clearance problems.

 

[rww124]

Do you have to have 2 1/8" headers? 1 7/8" with a 3" collector will give good performance and any modern OE (Dakota) or aftermarket starter (powermaster) will easily fit. I wouldn't even consider going back to manifolds.

Per the TTI website the 440-218 headers are not compatible with 440 Source Sheath heads however that is what was on the car when I purchased it and am sure I would get next to nothing if I sold the 2 1/8 headers and would pay through the nose for the correct 1 7/8 TTIs. My Cousin took my generation 1 RobbMc starter and compared it to a 2005-2008 Ram 1500 with 5.7 V8 manual transmission starter and said the Ram starter will fit. Will have to wait and see on Monday or Tuesday when the starter comes in.