Crane Adjustable Rockers/Solid Pushrods/Hyd. Cam-Will It Work?

[Al K]

OK;question(s) time...

As I stated in another thread,I'm tired of the clatter of my rocker arms on the 413. What I've got here are a set of Crane ductile iron adjustable rocker arms,Crane 3/8" solid 9.125" pushrods;destined to go with the OEM(original) 413/340hp cam.

First;anyone foresee any oiling issues? The pushrods are solid,and the shafts don't have oiling holes like a normal hydraulic rocker arm shaft. The arms have a small oiling hole for the shaft;is that enough? Is there enough splash to lube the arm tips and p-rods? As far as the length;is that going to be too short(as in: will my adjuster screws end up too far down in the arm to compensate for the rod length)? I know mechanical p-rods are 9.20" and hydraulics are 9.31" for an RB mill.

As always;ANY help and advice is appreciated.

 

[plymouth67]

I want to know where you got the rockers because i need the same thing you have .

 

[Al K]

I want to know where you got the rockers because i need the same thing you have .

Found them on CL as well;a couple of years ago. If I remember correctly,Iskenderian,Crane,Sig Erson and a couple of other companies made identical/similar units to the original Max Wedge-type units. Check Mancini Racing;they may still have the MP pieces.

 

[67 B-body]

OK;question(s) time...

As I stated in another thread,I'm tired of the clatter of my rocker arms on the 413. What I've got here are a set of Crane ductile iron adjustable rocker arms,Crane 3/8" solid 9.125" pushrods;destined to go with the OEM(original) 413/340hp cam.

First;anyone foresee any oiling issues? The pushrods are solid,and the shafts don't have oiling holes like a normal hydraulic rocker arm shaft. The arms have a small oiling hole for the shaft;is that enough? Is there enough splash to lube the arm tips and p-rods? As far as the length;is that going to be too short(as in: will my adjuster screws end up too far down in the arm to compensate for the rod length)? I know mechanical p-rods are 9.20" and hydraulics are 9.31" for an RB mill.

As always;ANY help and advice is appreciated.

I dont think you'll have a lubrication problem at all! I do wonder about the pushrod lengths though. I know that solid lifters come in different seat heights and this makes it tough to just go out and replace lifters or cams with different baseline's. I think Hyd cams have the same issues / differances between them too! Look at the Comp website and check out the details for each lifter type that fits a BB and compare. They usualy do a good job at listing the lifter seat height. This is the distance from the face to the pushrod cup. Next look at an EDM type lifter like Hughes sells. Mine are much higher in seat height than a factory lifter is. This changes the pushrod length by ALOT! I actualy have a set of brand new Mopar solid lifters for sale because of this very reason... Too short for my pushrod length!
Anyhow,,, you might be able to find a set of lifters with the correct seat height to keep the cost down of buying a set of pushrods too!

 

[67 B-body]

Found them on CL as well;a couple of years ago. If I remember correctly,Iskenderian,Crane,Sig Erson and a couple of other companies made identical/similar units to the original Max Wedge-type units. Check Mancini Racing;they may still have the MP pieces.

I sold a set of heads last year with the Ductile arms on them. They were made by Crane.

 

[67 B-body]

Some of what I was talking about from Comp Cams specs.
Chrysler 882-16 V8 273-360, 383-440 904"/109g 1.19" seat height
867-16 V8 B-383-440 1968-Present 904"/107g 1.84" seat height
824-16 V8 B-383-440, 1958-67 904"/110g 1.91" seat height
822-16 V8 B-383-440, 1968-Present 904"/109g 1.88" seat height

 

[Al K]

67 B-Body;thanks for the lifter specs. As far as I know,this mill(1964 Chrysler 340hp) has not been apart of modified-ergo,original lifters still in there. I

These pushrods(Crane) are slightly shorter than the OEM's that I pulled out,BUT...it looks like the adj. rockers compensate for that with a lower contact point(ball-to-cup) than the stamped arms. I'm presuming original cam(for which I don't have specs-can't be radical by any means),so no lift issues to really play with the geometry. I may mock up one side and see what I've got;I figured I'd ask the more knowledgeable amongst us before I tear it all apart. PLUS...it's Back To The Bricks week,and I'll be damned if I'm not driving my car:headbang:. I don't want to spend the week working on it...I'll live with the OEM setup and the noise and try to keep my foot out of it. Yeah,right...:yes:

Some pics to (hopefully) demonstrate what I'm dealing with:

I've got one shaft/rocker ***'y off;I'll install the Cranes and a p-rod,tighten them down,roll the motor over ,adjust the screw for the lash,roll her over again and see what I've got. Don't know 'till you try;I just want to make sure I won't encounter issues when I put both assemblies on and fire the mill up.

 

[67 B-body]

Do you already have the Hyd cam in? Sorry, I don't undertsand what you'll be looking for if you still have the solid cam in?

 

[Al K]

Stock OEM/hydraulic cam in there(mill is a 1964 Chrysler 340hp 413;not rebuilt to my knowledge);I realize the adjustable rocker arms may be "overkill",but there's so much clearance between the stamped/hydraulic arms and the shaft that I feel like I've got to try something. Hell,I'm worried about a pushrod coming out of the rocker arm socket!

I've got one side on;the shaft bolts are tight but not torqued yet. Turning the mill with a ratchet and socket is SLOW,as I've only got a few degrees of movement with the fan on there.

 

[67 B-body]

Wow,,, I was under the impression you had a solid lifter camshaft! If you have lash in your hyd cam setup, something is wrong... When I ran a hyd cam in a 440 mild build, I was able to use standard arms and the lifters were able to take up the lash no problem, and no noise!

 

[Al K]

This is what I'm dealing with:

These are new arms(Mopar packaging;purchased from Summit) and new shafts(Sealed Power),and as you can see,they came with added clearance. The right-offset arms are the worse of the two;damn things had holes that looked like a used piece. It's not a worn cam(causing slack in the system) or a collapsed lifter-or three-from what I can tell;the arms move in a good arc when the mill turns.

 

[Meep-Meep]

What you have is exactly what you want to run, especially if you have more than stock valve spring pressures. The rockers get oil through the shafts not the push rods so there is nothing to worry about. You will need to run through the mechanical valve adjustment sequence (found in the DC engine manual) and adjust every valve to one turn in from zero lash.

 

[Al K]

Meep;original springs on there,no "hi-po" stuff. What had me concerned was the "elongated" shape of the shaft holes in the rockers;in particular,the "right" offset pieces. It's almost an oval on those. The "left" pieces I've got aren't as bad.

For now,I just put the old rockers back on there. I'm not getting into a time-consuming job when there's driving to be done. Don't get the impression that I'm lazy;I've missed so much stuff in the last couple of years while fixing this and that,so I'm getting my arse out there. They're already gathering in downtown Flint for Back To The Bricks(and it's 5:45 in the morning! On a Monday!),and I plan to represent FBBO and Mopars everywhere. Who's with me!

If I get a rainy day this week,I may try to install the adjustables and other pushrods. I was almost there yesterday,and decided to just return to the stock setup so I could deal with a couple of other issues before this week.

 

[Meep-Meep]

Meep;original springs on there,no "hi-po" stuff. What had me concerned was the "elongated" shape of the shaft holes in the rockers;in particular,the "right" offset pieces. It's almost an oval on those. The "left" pieces I've got aren't as bad.

For now,I just put the old rockers back on there. I'm not getting into a time-consuming job when there's driving to be done. Don't get the impression that I'm lazy;I've missed so much stuff in the last couple of years while fixing this and that,so I'm getting my arse out there. They're already gathering in downtown Flint for Back To The Bricks(and it's 5:45 in the morning! On a Monday!),and I plan to represent FBBO and Mopars everywhere. Who's with me!

If I get a rainy day this week,I may try to install the adjustables and other pushrods. I was almost there yesterday,and decided to just return to the stock setup so I could deal with a couple of other issues before this week.

If you're referring to the elongated hole in the stamped steel rockers that's normal. The business end is the area that contacts the shaft. Just make sure the bottom part is not overly worn and you will be fine. The big problem I have seen with the stamped steel units is the pushrod punching through. Also make sure you have the oil holes in the shaft facing the correct direction. There is a diagram in the FSM. Happy driving!

 

[Cranky]

Meep is right....the top half is out in the wind so to speak and the important part is the bottom. Why is your stock hydraulic setup making noise? About the only reason why it would is if the lifters are not pumping up all the way anymore...ie worn out.

 

[Al K]

Meep is right....the top half is out in the wind so to speak and the important part is the bottom. Why is your stock hydraulic setup making noise? About the only reason why it would is if the lifters are not pumping up all the way anymore...ie worn out.

Cranky;I was starting to think along those lines myself. Start up pressure is 60psi,when warm(hot,actually) it drops to 35-40psi at idle. Under load,going down da road,it's at 50psi or so. Not bad for an old mill,even with 20W-50 oil in there. I just want this motor to live until next year,and hopefully there will be a 440+ incher to drop in next spring. A can of STP,perhaps? Any other suggestions? Straight 40 or 50 wt. oil?

Meep-Meep;I double checked the oil hole/shaft placement. Plenty of oil there. When I put this new stuff on,I was torquing the last bolt and something told me do pull that side and check it. Good thing I did;I HAD reversed the rocker order and had the oil holes facing the wrong way. Even pulled the other side to be sure;good to go on that side.

Thanks for the help and advice,and please keep it coming. I know I'm not the only one who will benefit!

 

[Meep-Meep]

If you are having a valve tick with the OEM non adjustable rockers then you might have to tune the push rod length. The correct way is to measure the travel of the lifter plunger (not going to be easy full of oil!) and select the push rod length so the plunger is in the middle of the travel. It's possible the push rod/s are at the extreme end of being too short and as things expand when the engine warms up you get a tick-tick-tick. Other possibilities that might cause you to need a longer push rod would the rockers are extremely worn on the pivot or the other contact areas. I'm pretty sure a new set of stamped steel rockers are pretty reasonable so you may just have to replace them, or just the really bad ones.

 

[Cranky]

Cranky;I was starting to think along those lines myself. Start up pressure is 60psi,when warm(hot,actually) it drops to 35-40psi at idle. Under load,going down da road,it's at 50psi or so. Not bad for an old mill,even with 20W-50 oil in there. I just want this motor to live until next year,and hopefully there will be a 440+ incher to drop in next spring. A can of STP,perhaps? Any other suggestions? Straight 40 or 50 wt. oil?

I meant the lifters may be worn and are bleeding out too much oil and are not pumping up to spec.

 

[Al K]

I meant the lifters may be worn and are bleeding out too much oil and are not pumping up to spec.

Cranky;please clarify:lifter-to bore clearance or mechanism issues? Potential soon-to-occur problem-like lifter collapse? Like I said,I just want this motor to live until next year;if I had to do a cam and/or lifter change,I accept that. Wasn't planning on a cam package purchase other than for the 440.

Meep;what's on there now is brand new shizz. Sealed Power shafts,and Mopar rockers purchased from Summit. Guess that's just the way they are. I did use a film of assembly lube on all mating surfaces when I installed them.

Hey guys,thanks for all the advice! -Al

 

[Cranky]

Well, you said earlier that you have clatter in your rockers and the only way I know you can have that with a hydraulic cam is to have worn parts. If the lifters are not pumping up to specs, the plunger where the push rods seat may not be coming up all the way like they should. The lifter body and the lifter bores do wear some but probably not enough to cause it but may be the lifter is worn internally....