Docile Iron rockers, couple of quick questions

[Malicious]

Wow, feeling good about investing cash into these old rockers now!

Here's the pics of the rockers, no idea of the brand, the are moulded

 

[Malicious]

Fkn phone.

The are moulded with s1 and s2 if that helps. New adjusters as well.

 

[miller]

the oil supply from the block to the rocker shaft is the same. adjustable rockers cover the shaft 360 degrees and don't pond or bleed off as much oil as stock stamped steel.

Just curious, lewtot184, those adjusters pictured, are those solid? Or, have a oiling port at the ball? Lol...or just require hollow pushrods?

 

[66Satellite47]

Those look like Crane parts to me. Sure could be wrong. Don't appear to be Isky. The screws sure look like Crane too. FYI, I had bad experience with the adjusters that came with my Crane aluminum offset rockers. I twisted one off without excessive force. I switched back to Isky screws. The disadvantage of the Isky screws was they used the screwdriver slot not a hex key. I got great durability out of the Isky screws. Not sure what the new stuff of any brand is like though.

 

[Cranky]

They look to be Cranes to me too. It's been so long since I've even looked at the Iskys I have and have done so many adjustments on all kinds of other brands that I don't even remember what the adjustment screws look like on them....

 

[66Satellite47]

They look to be Cranes to me too. It's been so long since I've even looked at the Iskys I have and have done so many adjustments on all kinds of other brands that I don't even remember what the adjustment screws look like on them....

The Isky rockers had a hardened pad on the rocker tip, Cranes & Mopars were just the ductile casting. The Isky's were strong, but the screwdriver slot on the screws would open up with time. I would replace them after a couple years. BTW the newer Crane screws use a smaller hex & keep more material around the threads. No real world experience though. But they sure seem better.

 

[lewtot184]

View attachment 369657 View attachment 369658 View attachment 369659 View attachment 369660 Fkn phone.

The are moulded with s1 and s2 if that helps. New adjusters as well.

those are cranes, (i think erson had look alikes) with the latter long adjusters.

 

[lewtot184]

Just curious, lewtot184, those adjusters pictured, are those solid? Or, have a oiling port at the ball? Lol...or just require hollow pushrods?

no oiling orifice. oil has to drip down the back of the rocker into the cup. with too many threads showing the cup doesn't oil as well.

 

[lewtot184]

Those look like Crane parts to me. Sure could be wrong. Don't appear to be Isky. The screws sure look like Crane too. FYI, I had bad experience with the adjusters that came with my Crane aluminum offset rockers. I twisted one off without excessive force. I switched back to Isky screws. The disadvantage of the Isky screws was they used the screwdriver slot not a hex key. I got great durability out of the Isky screws. Not sure what the new stuff of any brand is like though.

i prefer the slotted adjusters with the iron rockers because the ball is closer to the threaded section. this helps geometry and if by chance too many threads are showing your more likely to get by with it.

 

[lewtot184]

They look to be Cranes to me too. It's been so long since I've even looked at the Iskys I have and have done so many adjustments on all kinds of other brands that I don't even remember what the adjustment screws look like on them....

it's been quit a few years back for me but the isky's i played with had the slotted adjusters. all adjusters were slotted on iron rockers until the past decade. the slotted adjusters seem to have been discountinued. thats unfortunate because i think they were better for the average guy using a moderate street cam.

 

[lewtot184]

Seems even the newer modern rockers have problems with the huge cams. Not sure anymore who has what but T&D was one to look at for the more exotic grinds at one time. The non roller tip rockers do not like big cams but back in the 80's .660 lift was considered pretty big. It's been nearly 20 years since I've had a hand in anything that was quick so I'm pretty much out of the loop on it.....that is if you call low 9's quick. I still do but there's plenty of people who say 9's is pretty much ho hum these days lol.

the availability of good parts has changed greatly in the past 20yrs for the mopar crowd. back in the '70's and 80's there wasn't much more than the iron rockers for us guys. people did the best they could with what they had.

 

[66Satellite47]

the availability of good parts has changed greatly in the past 20yrs for the mopar crowd. back in the '70's and 80's there wasn't much more than the iron rockers for us guys. people did the best they could with what they had.

Lew, thanks for that comment. "Back in the day" we really didn't have much current day technology, unless you were one of the Mopar elite.
We do have a much wider selection of parts available today.

 

[khryslerkid]

I used Crane with 2 to 3 threads showing under the rocker when checking for pushrod lenth

I have to correct what I said in my post.

When I first started to set up my valvetrain, I had read about useing two or three threads showing. After going back and seeing what I actually did, I only have, at the most, one thread showing. (Senior Moment!)

When trying two or three threads, I didn't like the geometry or the fact that they would be more susceptible to breaking off. I believe I even recall lewot184 stating not to do this, in another thread, back when I was working all of this out. I found out that all of this is more involved than I had expected.

I checked the sweep of the rocker over the valve end, coloring it with a marker, then rotating the engine through one cycle to see what pattern the rocker left. I did this on several rockers. It's also a good time to watch for the spring retainer to rocker clearance and pushrod through the head clearance.

Buying a pushrod checking tool is a must. This one held up fine, using it for rotating the assembly while checking for clearances. (You can buy a lighter, valve spring for doing this.) Also I made a "solid" lifter for doing this operation. After I was satisfied with the length that the rod was set to, I ordered that length pushrod.

There are so many things that have to be checked and figured. Valve spring height, valve spring retainer clearance, correct valve springs for the cam that's being used, valve to piston clearance, valve timing, ect. Fun stuff!

 

[khryslerkid]

And then there is the centering of the rockers.
The Crane rockers that I have were not uniform to each other. I had to evaluate the ones that were off a bit and place them where they would work better than the others. I bought spacers and shims to use and removed material on the hold downs. Pushrod through the head clearance came into play here too. More fun but they worked out fairly well.

 

[lewtot184]

And then there is the centering of the rockers.
The Crane rockers that I have were not uniform to each other. I had to evaluate the ones that were off a bit and place them where they would work better than the others. I bought spacers and shims to use and removed material on the hold downs. Pushrod through the head clearance came into play here too. More fun but they worked out fairly well.

View attachment 369695

push rod/adjuster looks good. paying attention to details, like you did, will pay off in the long term. good pics!

 

[66Satellite47]

Yes, I too moved rockers from location to location & ground and shimmed the spacers. It does take time.

 

[Cranky]

Right....setting up a valve train isn't a plug and play issue....or bolt and go especially when it's aftermarket stuff. Even stock stuff should be looked at carefully. The factory wasn't exactly on the money all the time. This is the reason why I degree in EVERY cam I install....stock or performance.

 

[Malicious]

So to wrap up;
shim to suit (under & horizontally) - full cycle to check tip contact
Lube with engine oil before start up (prime as well)
new adjusters max 1 thread showing preferably even?

Only thing I'm off on is the oil passage to the adjusters seams to come out at least a few threads up the adjuster female threaded section. Is any oil actually going to get there that if its screwed down even / 1 thread showing? or will it seep past the threads onto the ball and into the cup?

On a side note I would have much preferred the slotted adjusters, the threads were tight form the PO's use and I threaded the hex hole on one of the adjusters cleaning them up. I'll get in a replacement, but the tiny 1/8 hex holes just can't take very much torque through them at all.

 

[khryslerkid]

One set of used ductile rockers I have, had the self locking threaded adjuster, (no lock nut) The thread pitch is off just enough to keep them from turning. And they are hard to turn.
Do you have the lock nuts on yours?

The oil passage goes around the adjuster. Remove the adjuster and look in the hole. It can not be blocked by the position of the adjuster.

 

[Malicious]

Nah mine have the locking nut, but the previous adjusters might have had the tapered threads. They didn't have the locking nuts. Another user on here thought they were from a slant 6? They were in bloody tight.

RE the oil passage, here is the pic of the oil passage in mine. it looks as though it can be block? Is that fine? or are mine different?

View attachment 369660