Here's one, although minor, the roller tip raises the arm and throws out the geometry ( hence the B3 conversion)
Ductile Iron Rockers: Outdated? Or good investment?
- Thread starter 68Satellite440
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68Satellite440
Well-Known Member
So you would rather have the stamped rockers, than adjustable iron rockers?
I cannot currently afford any of the big brand roller rockers. I figured anything adjustable is better than stamped.
Somehow, someway, they still set records with stockers using them
68Satellite440
Well-Known Member
I don’t know what the B3 conversion is, could you explain?
I have no experience with iron rockers or setting proper geometry.
68-500
Well-Known Member
Im not interested in building a race roller engine just a hot street car. Adjustable rockers are a necessity on solid flat tappet. I like the simplicity.
1KoolBee
Well-Known Member
If you are planning on running Edelbock/Stealth/Trickflow heads, get the Harland sharp rockers that are designed to have correct tip geometry for those style heads ( SHPS70016KE or SHPS70015KE ) and save your sanity. Irons are a great budget choice for factory castings. B3 correction is a great way to spend double the money to solve a problem that Harland Sharp already solved without any extra BS.
This:
Not this:
Crane Irons on Stealth heads, Isky is same, note the rocker tip is way to the intake side of valve tip. It doesn’t get much better through the motion.
Last edited:
He is probably referring to this outfit.
B3 Racing Engines LLC - Mopar Rocker Arm Geometry Tech
I only ran across them recently myself and have no further comment at this time
Yes precisely. Read all the articles, then read them again.
But also keep in mind how many people are out there driving and racing without that stuff. It's valve train fine tuning.
Because it's relatively easy to correct the ratio geometry.
I've used the Crane and iskey on relatively stock builds with under .500 lift cams and love them.not a fan of the original stamped rockers. I also like the original Mopar ones from solid lifter boat big blocks. They fit very nicely under stock valve covers
The problem with Mopar valve trains is the shaft mounted rocker system and the fact its a "fixed" height. The stock shaft height was determined based on the lift of stock cams and the height along with the geometry of the rocker will yield the sweep and contact patch on the valve tip. But the moment you switch cams and increase valve lift, the stock shaft height is no longer ideal - the sweep increases and the contact patch moves. The guys at B3R correct this with their kits.
Randy Wilson
Well-Known Member
440 Source is reproducing the ductile iron rockers $279
lewtot184
Well-Known Member
Really?
Explain yourself !
Krooser
Well-Known Member
Well they ran hundreds of 500 mile races in NASCAR before aluminum rockers came along.
Unless you are running $1500 T&D rockers they are stronger than any alloy deal.
Install new bronze bushing with an undersize ID, bore/hone rocker shaft diameter wherever you want it.
see here
jim
dbc105
Well-Known Member
I picked up a set of factory arms at the swap meet a few months ago at MOParty. I gave $225 and I'm missing 1 spring. Mancini has these. I had been watching to come across a set for a couple years. I did a lot of research and if you're not racing and it's only a street engine ductile iron is what you want. On the street parts need to hold and look at a set of roller rockers and look at the potential points of destruction. Every part that rolls is a point of possible failure. I want to drive my car and I'm not racing so I will neve rmiss that little bit of HP rollers may save. The final nail in the coffin for me was watching Engine Masters where they tested this and rollers didn't help at all. Along with all that, if they would hold up and make any amount of power the factory would use them, and neither Chrysler of GM uses them. This is all just my opinion on what I am doing but read enough here and you will find that the iron rockers is pretty much the common wisedom and there are people on here that know way more than me ono MOPARs.
Oh yeah, that’s “relatively easy” !!!
lewtot184
Well-Known Member
Thinking the roller tip makes power is delusional. A roller trunion on a ball stud set up has to be more stable. Setting geometry with a roller tip on a shaft system is easier than setting a scrub pattern on a traditional rocker. Thinking long term reliability with something like a crane or factory iron isn't going to happen, especially with modern cam lobes and spring pressures. Keep in mind the higher the lift the longer the scrub pattern and a valve tip just has so much real estate. Anybody who's messed with various ductile iron rockers for any length of time knows they are a short term part. I've been running a set of crane gold rockers on a 440, solidifter cam, for 20+ yrs and so far without issue. From my experience ductile iron would never last that long.
I think this discussion has confirmed a thought I've had about people wanting iron. They either don't believe setting geometry is important, don't know how or why they should set geometry, and probably don't have experience between the roller and non-roller tips.
dbc105
Well-Known Member
Well it all goes back to what you plan to use it for. If you is just an everyday driver worrying about that little bit of geometry will never be noticed in seat of the pants. That also goes for the high lift extreme ramp cams. If you are looking for driveability and dependability your cam will not be that extreme. As for ductile iron lifetime, I've seen irrgation pumps with old 413 industrial engines still running just fine with ductile iron rockers. Seems to me the time for roller rockers is when you are hunting ever ounce of power you can find. While I've not seen a trunion bearing go bad I have seen roller tips go bad and without a lot of mileage.
All in all, that what's great, to each his own, he was asking opinions, we all gave one.
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