Dual Point gap setting??

[Frustration]

Thanks again. I replaced the condenser and no change. I borrowed a known good carb that I'm about to fire up. I don't think it's a carb issue, but I want to rule it out. After the carb, I'm going to do a compression test to see what that tells me. Tom

 

[Jerry Hall]

If a dual point distributor gets out of adjustment it will easily cause what you are indicating. I had one heck of a time getting the Mallory dual point setup in my 67 Satellite in 1969. That's when I found out how it was done on the Sun distributor tester. The person I used back then always put the distributor on the tester with the primary or lead points set at 17 and then adjusted the other set by dwell to 30-31 degrees. I always thought that was to get the second set of points exactly the same but reading all the posts and threads here understand that it's not necessarily the same and it's all about the total dwell. Thanks guys.

 

[toolmanmike]

Like Mike said dwell is the amout of time the point set remains closed. With the dual point distributors you need to get the combined dwell. That's why you set the primary set (first set that opens) first, then useing the secondary set to set the combined dwell. (Refer to the last paragraph in my first post.)

If you didn't find anything mechanically wrong with the engine, try replacing the condenser first before anything else. A bad one can act like you described, popping and down on power. Replacing just this first can tell you exactly what it was before changing or replacing other parts.

A set of points can wear at the rubbing block if the block is allowed to run on the cam dry. This will close the points gap over a period of time.

The point's contacts can become burnt over a long period of time. Leaving the key on without the engine running can burn a set real quick.

The spring can break which rarely happens and that will leave you sitting on the side of the road. The dual point distributor can run on just one set of points.

And I would contact @HALIFAXHOPS and get a new old stock condenser. The new ones you get at the parts store are junk!

 

[HALIFAXHOPS]

Thanks again. I replaced the condenser and no change. I borrowed a known good carb that I'm about to fire up. I don't think it's a carb issue, but I want to rule it out. After the carb, I'm going to do a compression test to see what that tells me. Tom

Check the condenser with a meter cold and hot. The new ones are junk, you could easily get two bad ones. Rule it out to be sure.
https://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/ams/how-to-check-a-condenser-on-a-points-ignition.186/

 

[HALIFAXHOPS]

Here are what Mopar dual point settings should be also.

GAPS: either point set: .014-.019"
DWELL: one set point: 27-32
both set points: 37-42

 

[Frustration]

So a buddy came over with his dwell meter. We set the points up as mentioned above and the car ran a bit better. I still had an issue when I got hard on the gas the car would pop through the carb. I pulled the intake to see what the cam looked like. No visible indications of the cam lobes being wiped, but when I checked the lash...multiple lifters (hydraulic cam) were collapsed. I could push the rocker and push rod into the lifter, allowing roughly .250" of gap above the valve tip. Guessing I'll be replacing lifters at least...if not a complete cam swap. Any thoughts??

 

[HALIFAXHOPS]

Sounds like you found the problem with the lifters.

 

[Frustration]

...unfortunately. The good news is that I learned how to set points. Never ran anything but electronic ignition in the past. Hoping this won't turn out to be a long hibernation for the car. Thank you for everyone's help.

 

[toolmanmike]

...unfortunately. The good news is that I learned how to set points. Never ran anything but electronic ignition in the past. Hoping this won't turn out to be a long hibernation for the car. Thank you for everyone's help.

I don't put a ton of miles on my 66 so I get a few years out of a set of points. Proper gap and a quality condenser will make them last a long time.

 

[khryslerkid]

Any thoughts??

Hydraulic lifters do bleed down, especially overnight. They will pump back up when the engine is started. It's mainly when you hear clackity clack when it's running that they are bad or just dirt in them.

 

[BSB67]

Hydraulic lifters do bleed down, especially overnight. They will pump back up when the engine is started. It's mainly when you hear clackity clack when it's running that they are bad or just dirt in them.

This.
It is unlikely the lifters are your problem.

 

[Cranky]

All my cars were still points including my /6 66 Belvedere but that car hasn't been together since 98 and was my last points car. If you've never done a /6 tune up, then you ain't livin lol. Had a tune up guy show me some pointers in the late 60's and a couple were to set the points a bit wide, the plugs a bit tight and then drive into the tune. Could easily go a full year or more with my daily drivers and I always drove them hard. Heck, I even raced the 66 a lot and that thing was consistent. I always knew that the points in the Belvedere were getting worn because as your point gap closes up over time, your timing advances....and the old /6 already had a lot timing in it so it didn't take much wear to kick it up. Kinda miss doing tuneups as it gave me a chance to look things over good instead of just raising the hood to check fluids and bang....get in and go.

 

[383man]

I raced my 340 Dart for years with an Accel dual point that I liked because it used an allen wrench to set the points like GM cars. You can set the dwell with the car running. They are actually easy to set once you understand them. As said the second set of points will increase the dwell (points closed) time for longer coil saturation and a hotter spark. The old rule of thumb on daily drivers was a tune up once a year or 12,000 miles which you would replace the points and condenser. Over time the points contact can burn some and cause a dirty contact and less current flow in the ign primary. Also as the rubbing block on the points wears the timing will retard so you always set the timing next to last in a tune up after the points and condenser have been replaced. Course the last thing in a tune up is the carb adjustment. With my Accel dist I would gap the points at .017 and then block the second set open with a piece of a match pack and set the dwell on the first set. Then take the match pack cover out of the second set and then set the combined dwell as you could do it with the eng running. On the normal Mopar dist I set the dwell while cranking the eng and then recheck when its running. I hope you get her fixed up Tom. Ron

 

[Stevecurley]

So....let me ask another question... If I understand correctly, the dwell is the total amount of contact between the two sets of points? Do the points ever come out of adjustment, or do they simply wear? What would alert me to the fact that they need to be changed? My car ran great for a couple of thousand miles. Last weekend, I put 60-80 miles on her. Later that night when my son had it out, he said it popped through the carb (which it never does), and since then, doesn't run correctly. I checked the power valve and float levels, as well as looked for a potential vacuum leak, which i could not find. I drained the oil, thinking i may have taken out a cam lobe, but the oil is clean, and there's nothing on the magnetic plug. All the push rods look to be straight, and the rockers have not been penetrated by the push rods. I checked the timing, and that is spot on as well. This is why I'm looking to replace the points, condenser, cap, and rotor. Am I looking in the wrong place?

Bad gas or water in the gas?
Bad coil (internally) or arching at the coil high tension post?
Condensation inside the distributor cap?
Vacuum line from carb to distributor came off or dry rotted?
Choke not working?
Carb air idle screws need tweeking?
Holley accelerator pump worn?

Never realized what a time saver contemporary onboard computers are.

 

[Frustration]

Sooo....as mentioned above, the lifters were NOT the problem. I see that #7 and #4 cylinders are not firing. So I have something going on with the distributor or the wires, or the plugs. I ohm checked the wires, and they were all within spec. 1200 or less, with the longer wires seeing the higher numbers. I'll get into it again tonight. What I think I've found is why companies like MSD and Mallory are in business...points-style ignitions are not the best, especially in a high performance application. That being said, I'm sticking with the dual-point set up. I didn't get into this hobby for the easy way out. I love learning new/old technology. I'll report back after the weekend on what I've found. We're in winter mode here, but my 17-year old son drives this car to school as his daily...even without a top. We need this car as a spare when mine and Mom's is in use. Hopefully we'll figure it out soon. Have a great weekend all!

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

Sounds like your full of frustration.........
Last time I had a one of these distributors was in the 70's.Thank GOD we had a distributor machine in high school shop! Also had one of those spark testers with the beadblaster to clean the the plug,had that dizzy out weekly,,,,,the Mallory unit where the wires went straight into the top and when the top was tightened it held the wires in place. That was almost 50 years ago

 

[Stevecurley]

Sooo....as mentioned above, the lifters were NOT the problem. I see that #7 and #4 cylinders are not firing. So I have something going on with the distributor or the wires, or the plugs. I ohm checked the wires, and they were all within spec. 1200 or less, with the longer wires seeing the higher numbers. I'll get into it again tonight. What I think I've found is why companies like MSD and Mallory are in business...points-style ignitions are not the best, especially in a high performance application. That being said, I'm sticking with the dual-point set up. I didn't get into this hobby for the easy way out. I love learning new/old technology. I'll report back after the weekend on what I've found. We're in winter mode here, but my 17-year old son drives this car to school as his daily...even without a top. We need this car as a spare when mine and Mom's is in use. Hopefully we'll figure it out soon. Have a great weekend all!

You said "My car ran great for a couple of thousand miles.". Before those last couple of thousand miles, was it owned by someone else?

 

[Cranky]

Sooo....as mentioned above, the lifters were NOT the problem. I see that #7 and #4 cylinders are not firing. So I have something going on with the distributor or the wires, or the plugs. I ohm checked the wires, and they were all within spec. 1200 or less, with the longer wires seeing the higher numbers. I'll get into it again tonight. What I think I've found is why companies like MSD and Mallory are in business...points-style ignitions are not the best, especially in a high performance application. That being said, I'm sticking with the dual-point set up. I didn't get into this hobby for the easy way out. I love learning new/old technology. I'll report back after the weekend on what I've found. We're in winter mode here, but my 17-year old son drives this car to school as his daily...even without a top. We need this car as a spare when mine and Mom's is in use. Hopefully we'll figure it out soon. Have a great weekend all!

I've had a LOT more ignition failures with the 'better' electronic ignitions than I ever did with the point setups lol but know many that have had problem failures with MSD equipment. And it got real bad in the late 70's/early 80's with the aftermarket replacement stuff. Heck, I got to where I'd pull off the control modules etc from wrecking yard cars instead of going to a local auto parts house to keep my fleet of junk running back then while the points cars kept on going. My 67 Dart was one of them that was still points and it never broke down or left me stranded while my 74 Dodge pickup seemed to do that like clock work. Always kept a spare ECU or ballast resister in that thing. Did have a Mopar Performance ignition system in my 10.60 car in the mid 80's that ran the whole season without a hitch and that thing saw 7300 on every pass.....

 

[Stevecurley]

I've had a LOT more ignition failures with the 'better' electronic ignitions than I ever did with the point setups lol but know many that have had problem failures with MSD equipment. And it got real bad in the late 70's/early 80's with the aftermarket replacement stuff. Heck, I got to where I'd pull off the control modules etc from wrecking yard cars instead of going to a local auto parts house to keep my fleet of junk running back then while the points cars kept on going. My 67 Dart was one of them that was still points and it never broke down or left me stranded while my 74 Dodge pickup seemed to do that like clock work. Always kept a spare ECU or ballast resister in that thing. Did have a Mopar Performance ignition system in my 10.60 car in the mid 80's that ran the whole season without a hitch and that thing saw 7300 on every pass.....

Before 1980 is had a 1975ish Dodge van w/ 318 and 77ish Plymouth Trail Duster w/ 360, both sputtered me crazy every time it rained or the snow turned into slush. Pretty sure they were electronic ignition. Gave up on Chrysler for 25 years because of those two.
After some research around '06, I picked up a couple of Mopar silver modules off ebay after hearing about all the complaints over the orange ones from Mopar. Supposedly, too, the silvers also sustained voltage output into higher rpm's then the orange units. I never had a problem with the silvers nor the orange which were almost new 9in the (Coronet or Road Runner) but didn't want to get stalled out so I trashed the orange units. I scored a great price on an MSD distributor with the power module built in about 2012 but sold the Road Runner before I put it in. I was really disappointed about that, too.

 

[Frustration]

Steve,

I bought this car off of the original owner after it sat for 30+ years. After a 10-12 year project, I have it running with a 440 and 4-speed. It originally had a 318 Poly. That being said, it ran great for me for a couple of thousand miles. Speedometer doesn't work, so not sure exact mileage, but ran it for two whole seasons, and intermittent in the cold months last winter.