Edelbrock E-Street Head & Piston Selection & Cam Questions 440

[lewtot184]

For the cam, find someone you trust that specs cam as part of their business and have them spec something and it might be a custom grind. I'm not talking cam manufacturers, I'm talking about guys that regularly spec cams for their customers that they have built a relationship with.

I'm not big into the fast rate hydraulics, and would consider something ground with a Comp Magnum or Thumpr lobe on a wider LSA like 112°. The Crower 271 would be a good off the shelf cam for you IMO.

good to see you here. sometimes I need some reinforcements,....lol.

 

[wyrmrider]

Exactly the last person you need is a help desk who deals with SBC all the time
Let me point out that the Comp chevy line of masters has higher loads on the smaller lifter diameter (not using all of the MOPAR lifter) than does say the Purple shaft or 4x4 line of MOPAR grinds from comp.
You want better wear use the whole lifter more gently
make a study of the intensity numbers on the left side of the comp grind catalog=Thanks to Harvey Crane for the "intensity" idea
supposed to be .006 to .050

 

[PurpleBeeper]

I have been looking at the 75cc version E-Street heads (5090). First off, you can get away with much more compression. I have iron 915 heads and I'm at 10.6 to 1 and use 93 octane and have used 87 accidentally without any detonation. With aluminum heads you will be fine even at 11.0 to 1 because the aluminum dissipates heat much faster. The cam selection plays into this as well to bleed off some compression. I recommend the 284/484 if you go with a Purpleshaft. The compression number you really want to watch is dynamic compression and you want to keep it under 8.3 to 1 for pump gas. Take a good look at Wiesco for pistons. I pushed the limits with my street 440 put she really hauls and I have no regrets or disappointments. .....an oh yea, I use a 175 hp shot of nitrous occasionally.

Well, for whatever reason, my current motor won't even run on 91 octane & is "50/50" on 92 octane. I can't say what my current compression ratio is for sure, but 10:1 is a reasonable guess. I'm running TRW L2295's with the domes cut off flush with the top of the piston (solid domes), .035" FelPro head gaskets, '71-'72 iron heads (open chamber).

I do plan on taking 1000+ mile trips in this car and I'm afraid I will need to fuel up somewhere that only has 91 octane. I still have the 292/509 purple shaft cam I pulled out of this motor before I put in the XE274 and I'm pretty sure it's too big for 2.76's (although I ran that cam with 2.76's in an automatic car before....dog off the line) I plan on keeping my nitrous shot to 150hp and use it very, very infrequently (with at least 93 octane gas & some timing pulled out). I do like the ICON pistons because they're made of 2618 aluminum.

 

[wyrmrider]

Been there done that
problem is the open chamber and flat piston combination
several have tried to turn those pistons around to fill the open chamber but I've never seen the results
Speed-O-Motive used to weld up the open chamber heads
I (among others much more qualified such as the Speed-o-Motive crew and the genius "Don Bass" at TMS PRopane performance) helped the KB piston designer John Erb (long retired) design the reverse deflector piston for the open chamber application- we think the compression height too low on the KB but looks like they fixed it on the ICON
YOu can run an open chamber race only with good gas but impossible on the street without a big compromise somewhere
the thicker gasket and less deck clearance it looks like you have about the same compression as a 6 packl so most likely more than 11:1
85 cc closed chamber heads opened up to 90 cc would help and you could take some off the deck on the spark plug side
that damn chamber looks like a pancake with the plug low on the thin side- flame travel does not have a chance
Don't you love all the advice to use big cams with 2.76 gears- dog off the line Been There Done that too 270 Isky is like a 290 Crane

 

[lewtot184]

Well, for whatever reason, my current motor won't even run on 91 octane & is "50/50" on 92 octane. I can't say what my current compression ratio is for sure, but 10:1 is a reasonable guess. I'm running TRW L2295's with the domes cut off flush with the top of the piston (solid domes), .035" FelPro head gaskets, '71-'72 iron heads (open chamber).

I do plan on taking 1000+ mile trips in this car and I'm afraid I will need to fuel up somewhere that only has 91 octane. I still have the 292/509 purple shaft cam I pulled out of this motor before I put in the XE274 and I'm pretty sure it's too big for 2.76's (although I ran that cam with 2.76's in an automatic car before....dog off the line) I plan on keeping my nitrous shot to 150hp and use it very, very infrequently (with at least 93 octane gas & some timing pulled out). I do like the ICON pistons because they're made of 2618 aluminum.

those trw clunkers about .050" in the hole, fel-pro's are .039" and .100" recess in the head equals terrible quench and probably some contaminates and it won't run on pump gas; tried it once. the icon's with an 84cc head are a no brainer.

 

[wyrmrider]

Not exactly in the hole
he has the solid dome pistons with the dome cut down (heavy)-- we used to do it with wedge (closed chamber) heads
but the piston deck is lower away from the spark plug where you are trying to get some quench- does not work
that's why we turned the pistons around on the rods- but I gave up on that- anyone else do it?
and remember that big dome pistons do not work either- cut fire slots or cut them down

 

[451Mopar]

I have some Edelbrock E-Street #5093 (84cc) heads on the way for a PURE STREET (almost) 440 I'm putting together. I will be running a very mild hydraulic flat-tappet cam in it (like a comp cams XE274 or "hemi grind" purple shaft).

Question #1:
I just saw this note on the Edelbrock site. I'm running a direct connection (stock style) electronic ignition distributor. Will I have any clearance issues? If so, what do I do?

INSTALLATION NOTE: Deck thickness: 5/8", pushrod diameter: 3/8". Vacuum advance distributor may not clear cylinder head.

Question #2:
What are some good, relatively inexpensive (less than $800/set) 2618 alloy forged pistons, for occasional nitrous use, with 0.990" wrist pins, that are as light as possible? I'm targeting in the 9:1 or 9.5:1 static compression range since I want to be sure it can run on 91-octane gas (when not running nitrous) with the 84cc cylinder heads. It's a stock stroke 440. I'd prefer valve reliefs for the larger valves (2.14"/1.81") "just in case" I ever put a larger cam in this motor. What pistons do you think I should look at? Is 9-9.5 to 1 a reasonable compression ratio target?

Question #3:
What are some flat-tappet hydraulic cams I should consider? I know I need to keep the cam very mild since I plan to run 2.76 rear end gears and a 4spd. This motor is intended for long-distance cruising.

THANKS FOR YOUR SUGGESTIONS!

1 - I think the Direct connection dist had the smaller diameter, stock sized cap, so it should fit. The aftermarket distributors with the larger caps may hit the cylinder head. Also, on something like this, I just use a quality (Smith Brothers or Manton) 5/16" pushrod. with a 3/8" pushrod you would have to check to make sure the pushrods don't rub on the pushrod holes.

2 - Most likely ICON #836 piston set. 2.067" Compression height, 12 cc dish volume. In theory, a 10.725" block height the piston will sit 0.015" below deck, and with a 0.040" head gasket calculates to 9.33:1 compression ratio with 84cc heads.
Milling the block so the piston is at zero deck at TDC, the compression comes up to 9.61:1.

3 - I haven't looked at the different cams, but the high rate of lift cams from Hughes, Comp, and Lunati are pretty good. I would run the lifter bore broaching tool from Hughes through the lifter bores to make sure they are round, and then use a brake cylinder hone on the lifter bores to make sure they are all smooth so the lifter rotates easy. I also like the Billet 3-bolt adjustable key way timing sets from 440 source. The Lunati Voodoo cams use the 3-bolt timing sets, and for something mild like this, I think I would just run the 10230703LK cam ($207 for cam and lifters.) The cam is 226/234 @ 0.050" and 0.494"/0.513" lift on 110 LSA.

 

[Bee1971]

Numbers 383 Magnum - 432 Stroker 440 Source 3.75 Stroke Comp Height On Pistons 1.320

Icon Pistons Are .015 In The Hole After Block Deck Got Cleaned Up - .039 Fel Pro Head Gaskets

Cant really find any info on these KB Icon 5040 Pistons on there Icon website , other then info from 440 Source

75 CC Edelbrock E Street Heads

Comp Cams XE275 HL

Puts Me At 10.5 Compression - Dynamic Looks To Bee Around 8.4

Timing Total Start At 38 Degrees - Have access to 91/92/93 Octane here in WI - Also 100LL as that's my job at the GRB airport

Broke in cam last month , but obviously living in WI , now its wait time for the street

 

[BSB67]

Not exactly in the hole

The CH on the the 2295 is 2.03". He said they cut the dome off flush. That put the piston 0.050" in the hole, like Lew said.

 

[wyrmrider]

maybe I misread him based on what we used to do
we cut the dome flush with the deck

With open chamber heads 0 deck or down 50 they are still trouble except at high rpm with good gas
hint- look at how much spark lead they need
10 degrees more than a vortec

 

[lewtot184]

Not exactly in the hole
he has the solid dome pistons with the dome cut down (heavy)-- we used to do it with wedge (closed chamber) heads
but the piston deck is lower away from the spark plug where you are trying to get some quench- does not work
that's why we turned the pistons around on the rods- but I gave up on that- anyone else do it?
and remember that big dome pistons do not work either- cut fire slots or cut them down

2295's have a 2.029 pin height; .050"+ in the hole.

 

[lewtot184]

the .030" over icon 836's and edelbrock heads I use figured around 9.75:1. the rpm heads I have are 81-82cc's. my quench with a fel-pro 8519 gasket averaged .045". my block does have a clean up cut. the 440 source rods are 6.76". this is really a very easy combo to do.

 

[wyrmrider]

do you have the weights of the two handy?
709/158 in Icon Catalog
any clean up cut required on the heads?
you still down .010 or how much with the Icons
Correct- easy build- you have to bush LY rods to BBchevy size .9898 (called .990 x 3") but you are rebuilding them anyway
no need for expensive rods-or bolts- use the Mopar Performance ones

Icon says T-6, heat-treated, 2618
Compression Ratio with 75cc Heads 10.4:1
Compression Ratio with 78cc Heads 10.2:1
Compression Ratio with 88c Heads 9.3:1
Advertised piston weight 709 grams, 141 gram wrist pin (on aftermarket website)
Notice the 12cc step head

• Piston Type
  Dish/Inverted Dome
• Compression Height 2.067 (similar to 6 pack)

You can use the 1.322 CH 400 piston for a 440 Stroker but lots of possibilities there so shop around

 

[lewtot184]

IIRC my pistons were 718grms, pins 141grms, one piston was .010" in the hole, 440 Source .990 pin 734grm h-beam rods, and I didn't mill the heads.

 

[PurpleBeeper]

2295's have a 2.029 pin height; .050"+ in the hole.

Correct, the pistons are cut flush vs. the "non-dome" part of the piston, not flush with the block deck.

 

[m79ded]

1 - I think the Direct connection dist had the smaller diameter, stock sized cap, so it should fit. The aftermarket distributors with the larger caps may hit the cylinder head. Also, on something like this, I just use a quality (Smith Brothers or Manton) 5/16" pushrod. with a 3/8" pushrod you would have to check to make sure the pushrods don't rub on the pushrod holes.

2 - Most likely ICON #836 piston set. 2.067" Compression height, 12 cc dish volume. In theory, a 10.725" block height the piston will sit 0.015" below deck, and with a 0.040" head gasket calculates to 9.33:1 compression ratio with 84cc heads.
Milling the block so the piston is at zero deck at TDC, the compression comes up to 9.61:1.

3 - I haven't looked at the different cams, but the high rate of lift cams from Hughes, Comp, and Lunati are pretty good. I would run the lifter bore broaching tool from Hughes through the lifter bores to make sure they are round, and then use a brake cylinder hone on the lifter bores to make sure they are all smooth so the lifter rotates easy. I also like the Billet 3-bolt adjustable key way timing sets from 440 source. The Lunati Voodoo cams use the 3-bolt timing sets, and for something mild like this, I think I would just run the 10230703LK cam ($207 for cam and lifters.) The cam is 226/234 @ 0.050" and 0.494"/0.513" lift on 110 LSA.

I Totally agree with 451Mopar. That cam with the piston he recommends will make a motor that you will be proud and happy with.

 

[wyrmrider]

YEP good to go