Edelbrock performer intake vs. 727 push button kickdown rod

[RedHot67]

Hi Mopar bro`s!

In general my question is:

Will my kick down ever work with a EDE performer intake and a 1965 single piece kick down rod? :gah:


When I got the car it came with a Torker II intake.
Unfortunately the previous owner drove it without kick down linkage.
So I swapped the intake for a EDE performer rpm to get a better low end response and also installed Lokar cables to make the 727 work:

After installing all the Lokar stuff and doing several test runs I soon found out that the 727 slips under high load :angryfire:
I thought the front clutch was burnt and bought a rebuild push button 727 from a real nice guy here @ FBBO.

I recently installed the rebuild transmission incl. a brand new converter from Hughes.
Hooked it all up together with the Lokar cables I had and guess what.....it was slipping again, same prob!

According to reviews here on the forum Lokar seemed to be the problem, I really gave my very best to adjust it, but it never worked out :banghead:


Next step!

I figured I had to install the OEM kickdown linkage to finally make the kick down work.

Pulled the EDE performer rpm intake and bought the much lower EDE performer intake, back to the roots using the single piece kick down rod!
This is my current setup:

The intake height is about an 1" higher than the stock cast iron one.
I`ve been reading instructions how to adjust the kick down a hundred times (really!)...tried so many adjustments but it still starts to slip under high load.


Do you think the intake is still too high and the linkage geometry is wrong?

Is there anything I can do about it?

Regards from sunny Germany,

Dan

 

[451Mopar]

I have cut and welded in some round stock to make the stock kickdown rod longer. I have also ran the Lokar setup without problems, but the outer cable sheath was too long and needed to be cut (just the outer part, not the cable) to get full travel. Not sure what lever you have on the trans, but you could drill the cable attaching hole closer to the pivot too. If the trans still slips with full pressure (kickdown all the way back) then there is issues with your transmission.

 

[RedHot67]

but you could drill the cable attaching hole closer to the pivot too

Hi,

what lever are you talking about, the transmission lever, or carb lever?

Just asking myself if I should modify/extend my kd-rod of about 1"?

THX

Dan

 

[HT413]

The good news is I'm running the performer RPM manifold plus a 1" carb spacer and have plenty of adjustability in the OEM kickdown linkage to get it right.

Wait, just read it again I don't have the '65 1 piece kickdown rod. Sorry.

Question about the Lokar kickdown cable - in the picture, it is connected to the carb linkage at the BOTTOM of the linkage, which means it will PULL on the cable as throttle is pushed. Th oem is hooked at the TOP, meaning it will push on the eom rod. Does the Lokar account for that down below or is that hooked up wrong for a mopar?

 

[RedHot67]

The good news is I'm running the performer RPM manifold plus a 1" carb spacer and have plenty of adjustability in the OEM kickdown linkage to get it right.

Wait, just read it again I don't have the '65 1 piece kickdown rod. Sorry.

Question about the Lokar kickdown cable - in the picture, it is connected to the carb linkage at the BOTTOM of the linkage, which means it will PULL on the cable as throttle is pushed. Th oem is hooked at the TOP, meaning it will push on the eom rod. Does the Lokar account for that down below or is that hooked up wrong for a mopar?

Hi dude,

awake that early? Over here it is 12:45hrs
You are right, with the Lokar cable it pulls the lever (see pic), but forget Lokar it is history already.

 

[HT413]

Lol, it's 7:30am over here. Not sure I'd forget the Lokar,if I were you. It just seems to me if you didn't modify the linkage down below for the cable pulling vs the rod pushing, no way the Lokar would work. In other words, it might be that simple of a fix.

 

[BBishere2]

May want to check with Mancini Racing - they have hardware/cables for those higher than normal intakes - hope that helps.

 

[kdtjb]

Lol, it's 7:30am over here. Not sure I'd forget the Lokar,if I were you. It just seems to me if you didn't modify the linkage down below for the cable pulling vs the rod pushing, no way the Lokar would work. In other words, it might be that simple of a fix.

The cables pull the kick down back from behind. The rods push the kick down back from in front. To answer the question, if the kick down is all the way back at full throttle that's good. But it needs to start pushing the throttle pressure valve in at about 1/2 throttle. In other words the pressure valve Don't start to move in the trans. Until about 1/2 way. Maybe 1/3 (don't have one in front of me now) The first bit of travel of the trans end kick down lever is not doing anything. So you want the kick down all in @ full throttle, but you you don't want to start pushing the valve in the valve body too early or too late. At moderate throttle 1-2 @ about 17 mph. 2-3 @ about 27 mph. Hope I didn't confuse anybody.

 

[451Mopar]

Hi,

what lever are you talking about, the transmission lever, or carb lever?

Just asking myself if I should modify/extend my kd-rod of about 1"?

THX

Dan

Transmission lever.

 

[RedHot67]

May want to check with Mancini Racing - they have hardware/cables for those higher than normal intakes - hope that helps.

Hi,
just checked Mancini, but they dont have a cable for my oush button 727, just for the later 727.

@kdtjb: dont worry, I`m already confused! :laughing7:


Btw.....I`ll soon drop my pan and increase the line pressure, this might be the bad guy!

 

[451Mopar]

Hi,
just checked Mancini, but they dont have a cable for my oush button 727, just for the later 727.

@kdtjb: dont worry, I`m already confused! :laughing7:


Btw.....I`ll soon drop my pan and increase the line pressure, this might be the bad guy!

Try imperial services (.net) I think they have cables for the pushbutton transmissions.

http://www.imperialservices.net/Bparts.html

 

[sleepar]

Hi Mopar bro`s!

In general my question is:

Will my kick down ever work with a EDE performer intake and a 1965 single piece kick down rod? :gah:


When I got the car it came with a Torker II intake.
Unfortunately the previous owner drove it without kick down linkage.
So I swapped the intake for a EDE performer rpm to get a better low end response and also installed Lokar cables to make the 727 work:

After installing all the Lokar stuff and doing several test runs I soon found out that the 727 slips under high load :angryfire:
I thought the front clutch was burnt and bought a rebuild push button 727 from a real nice guy here @ FBBO.

I recently installed the rebuild transmission incl. a brand new converter from Hughes.
Hooked it all up together with the Lokar cables I had and guess what.....it was slipping again, same prob!

According to reviews here on the forum Lokar seemed to be the problem, I really gave my very best to adjust it, but it never worked out :banghead:


Next step!

I figured I had to install the OEM kickdown linkage to finally make the kick down work.

Pulled the EDE performer rpm intake and bought the much lower EDE performer intake, back to the roots using the single piece kick down rod!
This is my current setup:

The intake height is about an 1" higher than the stock cast iron one.
I`ve been reading instructions how to adjust the kick down a hundred times (really!)...tried so many adjustments but it still starts to slip under high load.


Do you think the intake is still too high and the linkage geometry is wrong?

Is there anything I can do about it?

Regards from sunny Germany,

Dan

The trick to the linkages is to get an adjustable linkage off of a 440 and forget the one piealtogether... I would modify the cable system you have by shortening the sheath because you already have it... the only thing that matters is that the. Lever goes all the way back with the carb you should be able to adjust it beyond that and feel the difference when it's adjusted too tight on the other end of the spectrum.... it's so frustrating and they should sell or offer an assortment of linkages along with the intakes and 4bbl for sale everywhere. it is implied you know all those details up front. Youtube has some old school videos the dealerships used to train there employees... MSTC Or master tech it will explain how and why

 

[RedHot67]

Hi guys,

we (unfortunately) found the problem :angry1:
The transmission shop used a late style 727 oil filter spacer and blocked one of the two oil pump channels!!!

But now its too late, front clutch is toast and tranny needs to be rebuilt....which is really expensive over here in Germany.

Dan

 

[sleepar]

You should slow down and focus.... the early push button trans have 2 pumps one like the rest and a rear pump for push starting the car and the filters are different... to adjust the kick down it takes the right steps #1 shorten the locar cable to get full travel of the lever but that only works if the pump pressure is adjusted correctly... pump pressure is adjusted by turning a screw counter clock wise under the pan you need a tranny man on that or your throwing away another trans... get a hundred of them the way you are going....
There are different kick down levers also...... but that's probably not the problem because it's done it to 2 different ones..... on a push button the way it shifts is by these rods of different lengths its a simple set up but odd and people often miss that over time the rods get slack and don't fully engage the trans in gear.... index the pushbutton linkages and once the trans is rebuilt to factory specs shorten the locar cables..... don't assume because of any reason anything will bolt on and go with out adjustments because all cars are different the intake and the motor and trans mounts the body shell the levers may be adjusted what works for one doesn't for all but they all have the same specs IMHO you're not fully engaged in drive when you push the button to smoke 2in a row......

 

[RedHot67]

Hi sleepar,

I dont use the Lokar cables anymore, please read the entire thread.
The OEM linkage was adjusted correctly, at WOT the trans lever was approx 97% all in.
But with one of two pumps completely blocked there is nothing you can really do.
We increased the line pressure yesterday by turning the screw 2 turns ccw, but it did not help to rescue the 727.
In addtion to that we also drilled a hole into the spacer for the 2nd pump....too bad we didnt find the problem before.

 

[themechanic]

Sorry about your shifting/transmission troubles.

Thanks for posting the photos, though. I am swapping the oem iron intake for the RPM this weekend and I have the Lokar cable set in good working order. I was wondering if the Lokar bracket was going to work. So, I bought the hi rise brackets from Hughes, just in case. Looks like I won't be needing them now. Live and learn.

 

[HT413]

Sorry about your shifting/transmission troubles.

Thanks for posting the photos, though. I am swapping the oem iron intake for the RPM this weekend and I have the Lokar cable set in good working order. I was wondering if the Lokar bracket was going to work. So, I bought the hi rise brackets from Hughes, just in case. Looks like I won't be needing them now. Live and learn.

I'm running the lokar throttle cable and bracket. only thing I did to modify the lokar throttle bracket was twist it upward a bit with an adjustable wrench for a better alignment with the throttle linkage. Also, there is a set screw that pushes against the carb to prevent the linkage from twisting from the forces as throttle is applied. Didn't work great for me, so I installed a pan head screw in its place with the pan head resting against the carb. The set screw was digging in and falling off the carb, as it were, allowing some serious twist.

- - - Updated - - -

The twisting lead to weird throttle response and dwell issues and the vibration then loosened the carb stud but which then lead to a vac leak. Lol, was fun diagnosing that little diddy.

 

[themechanic]

I'm running the lokar throttle cable and bracket. only thing I did to modify the lokar throttle bracket was twist it upward a bit with an adjustable wrench for a better alignment with the throttle linkage. Also, there is a set screw that pushes against the carb to prevent the linkage from twisting from the forces as throttle is applied. Didn't work great for me, so I installed a pan head screw in its place with the pan head resting against the carb. The set screw was digging in and falling off the carb, as it were, allowing some serious twist.

- - - Updated - - -

The twisting lead to weird throttle response and dwell issues and the vibration then loosened the carb stud but which then lead to a vac leak. Lol, was fun diagnosing that little diddy.

Good to know. I'll get a pan head screw in there ASAP. Thanks.