EFI vs. Carb fuel system, is EFI really 'that much' more expensive?

[5.7 hemi]

That dude is more busy than rich guy in a whore house with a half price sale. Lol!

My buddy is coming over Sunday to look over my shoulder to make sure I don’t screw up too badly. I’m trying to get cold idle to stop hunting for the first 20-30 seconds and adjust the afr, it’s way too rich, hurts my nose.

 

[Mike67]

That dude is more busy than rich guy in a whore house with a half price sale. Lol!

My buddy is coming over Sunday to look over my shoulder to make sure I don’t screw up too badly. I’m trying to get cold idle to stop hunting for the first 20-30 seconds and adjust the afr, it’s way too rich, hurts my nose.

I figured, he posted his car on FB....if I had the cash it would be at my shop!

 

[andyf]

So someone like me for instance that’s about 700hp N.A. I wouldn’t be able to use the stealth 4500 correct? It says at least 800-1500.

At 700 hp you can use the Super Sniper 650. Just make sure your fuel pump can keep up. You'll need 350 lbs/hour of fuel or roughly 60 gph but that needs to be at 60 psi. So you need to pay close attention to the fuel pump rating. If your pump can keep up then the Sniper 650 will handle more than 700 hp. I've run my Sniper 650 on the dyno with my 470 race engine which makes 750 hp. It doesn't make as much power as a 4500 flange throttle body but it works.

 

[andyf]

I paid Close to $2500 for 2 SV1 carbs and about the same for the racepak.I had to do it in steps due to the expense.But weather and DA have much to due with the tune then throw different boost levels into the mix..I also found the outer limits of my 4 inch exhaust system .
Wish I had a self adjusting EFI system!

You should talk to Rich at FAST Man EFI. He'll probably recommend a Holley HP system with dual throttle bodies or perhaps some sort of multi port system. Not sure what the total cost would be, maybe $4K or $5K but you could sell your racepak and your SV carbs and recover some of that money back. You'll end up with a much better solution but it will take some work to get it all sorted out.

 

[kiwigtx]

Since I am probably the newest kid on the block with a Holley Sniper - on my 408 smallblock...I can honestly say that in the short time I have had this system, I would not think twice about a carb given another chance to start again.
I got sick of trying to tune carbs, the smell of gas in my garage, the wife complaining about the smell of gas in the house, and the problems with hot starts etc....TBI - EFI is the way to go IMHO. I cannot give a daily driver report on my setup yet...still early days, but I have had enough of a taste to know that I like what I have now.
It is awesome.

More pics in my rebuild thread.... https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/mopa...dge-a100-re-born-again.158953/#post-911061096

 

[1967coronet440]

At 700 hp you can use the Super Sniper 650. Just make sure your fuel pump can keep up. You'll need 350 lbs/hour of fuel or roughly 60 gph but that needs to be at 60 psi. So you need to pay close attention to the fuel pump rating. If your pump can keep up then the Sniper 650 will handle more than 700 hp. I've run my Sniper 650 on the dyno with my 470 race engine which makes 750 hp. It doesn't make as much power as a 4500 flange throttle body but it works.

What do you think about using the stealth 4500 on the 700hp engine

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

You should talk to Rich at FAST Man EFI. He'll probably recommend a Holley HP system with dual throttle bodies or perhaps some sort of multi port system. Not sure what the total cost would be, maybe $4K or $5K but you could sell your racepak and your SV carbs and recover some of that money back. You'll end up with a much better solution but it will take some work to get it all sorted out.

Multi port with a roots becomes interesting...........Have to do twin throttle bodies unless That's how it's done with a hat.Me things a big & ugly might fit the bill........

 

[Hemirunner]

EFI for sure, especially with the larger systems like the Holley HP and Dominator. They’ll grow or change to do virtually anything, eliminate stand alone boxes for ignition and data logging and with EFI, you no longer risk the dreaded vapor lock associated with today’s crappy fuels.

 

[Sweet5ltr]

I didn't start this thread to really undermine anyone with a carburetor, the entire thread is to really build upon the added value of TBI EFI for a similar cost.

I'll add one more comment here to the discussion. Many rarely ever discuss fuel wash and oil-fuel contamination. This is widely prevalent on carbureted applications.

On my 470 low-deck, I invested in a base-model 850DP Holley when transitioning back to N/A. That was one of the worst mistakes in my life, after putting three-hundred miles on the new engine build, unable to tune the ultra rich part-throttle cruise condition, the engine had a Holley Sniper EFI system.

 

[biomedtechguy]

I sent my 3 Holley 2bbl carbs to Promax.
Including their upper and lower fuel lines, I spent $750 in parts.
$400 in labor including tuning on their dyno mule and shipping.
So that's $1,150!
For 2x that amount I could have had the FiTech 3x2 system, good to 650HP.
That doesn't count what I could get for 3 functional running Holley 6pack carbs!
Installing the Promax modded Holley carbs today. Promax mods were for easier/more flexible tuning-which the FiTech would do on its own.

 

[451Mopar]

I like the EFI systems. Cost wise, the new TBI EFI units are good when looking at 400-700 HP (NA) Engines. Under 400 HP, you can use smaller less expensive carbs, fuel pumps and such to keep costs down although you don't get the benefits of the EFI.
I haven't found a way to do EFI on the really cheap side yet. Setting up the EFI fuel system for me was the hard part. I originally used a sump kit in the stock tank and the external EFI pump, but later converter to an in-tank EFI pump. Really, if you have the ability to weld a sump kit on, you likely have the ability to modify a fuel tank for the in-tank pump. For many of our cars Tanks Inc and Spectra now offer EFI tanks making the conversion easier.
After setting up the fuel system, flush the fuel lines before connecting them to the EFI unit or fuel rail to make sure no trash is in the lines.
All my cars are running a return fuel line, and I connected the supply and return lines together with an old Summit Filter. Then ran the EFI pump for a minute to flush the lines. Reconnected the lines to the EFI, and inspected the filter element inside the Summit filter. I did find a small piece of rubber from the fuel line in the filter. If I did not flush the lines that debris could have gotten into an injector or regulator and cause problems that many would complain is the fault of the EFI, when it really was a install problem.

Anyhow, why did I mention the 400-700 HP (NA) range? That seems to be the range many are using the more expensive carbs and fuel pumps, and the cost difference between the higher end carbs/fuel pumps are near the same as the TBI EFI units and pumps. This also seems to be the focal point for many of the TBI EFI units. The 4150 flange TBI units are around 800 cfm, so the airflow might be a limiting factor with these when normally aspirated. The higher power numbers advertised with these units is that the injectors have the capability to supply fuel for more power in boosted combinations. Also, the larger injectors will work with E-85 but reduce the maximim HP of the rated system.

At 700+ HP (NA) you could use the Holley Super Sniper 4500, but the costs start getting to the point where port EFI might be a better option.

 

[English Dave]

Hi everyone, I’m looking for some insight and views. I have a Mopar performance crate motor, it’s the 410 six pack model P5153227. It’s a 500hp engine. After buying the motor I can’t afford the $3500 for a six pack assembly. So I’m looking at the Holley Sniper. Is this a wise move?

 

[5.7 hemi]

You’ll like it. Easy hook up and let it self learn as you drive. Then if you want, it can be tuned.

 

[1967coronet440]

Should work fine for your motor.

 

[Sweet5ltr]

Hi everyone, I’m looking for some insight and views. I have a Mopar performance crate motor, it’s the 410 six pack model P5153227. It’s a 500hp engine. After buying the motor I can’t afford the $3500 for a six pack assembly. So I’m looking at the Holley Sniper. Is this a wise move?

Wise move, it’s better in every way other than visual aesthetics. Holley is building a six-pack Sniper EFI assembly as well, unsure of the release date. They filed for the trademark last year.

 

[biomedtechguy]

Holley is building a six-pack Sniper EFI assembly as well, unsure of the release date. They filed for the trademark last year.

I just got my Promax modded Holley 3 2bbl carbs back yesterday. Installing them, the Carter M6903, and Promax upper and lower fuel lines now.

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

Should work GREAT for your motor.

Fixed it for ya

 

[English Dave]

Thanks for the input everyone. I’m going to look online for the Sniper. As much as I want a six pack on there, I just can’t justify the outlay. So the Sniper makes much more sense in that respect.

 

[andyf]

Hi everyone, I’m looking for some insight and views. I have a Mopar performance crate motor, it’s the 410 six pack model P5153227. It’s a 500hp engine. After buying the motor I can’t afford the $3500 for a six pack assembly. So I’m looking at the Holley Sniper. Is this a wise move?

Sure, no point in spending $3500 for three carbs and an intake when you can do an entire Sniper + HyperSpark conversion for less than that. You'll need a good single plane intake, a Holley Super Sniper 650, new gas tank with internal pump, return fuel line and a Hyperspark distributor. Total cost for everything should be around $2500 so you'll save $1000.

There is a ton of Holley Sniper info available on the internet. Just use google and then watch some of the youtube videos and such.

 

[English Dave]

Would you definitely go for the Hyperspark distributor over an MSD setup?

When I bought the engine it came with an Edelbrock intake and a F&B 2 barrel body. So my plan was to keep the Edelbrock and go Sniper with MSD. Yes or no??