Electric Fuel Pump

[Stumper]

Looking for some input. Seems my Holley HP 150 bit the dust yesterday and I need a new fuel pump. Current set up is the HP-150 going to a Holley regulator with a split feed to each front and back bowels on a Holley HP 950 carb. The car is driven mostly on the street these days to and from crusies and shows. No fuel line return to the cell.

Easiest thing to do would be to order another HP150 since it would bolt right in place and one wire connect and I'd be back riding - but, I'm wondering if there is a better route to go? The 150 gph Holley seemed the right size for WOT runs (motor makes around 675-700 hp) so I don't think I need anything bigger, unless I go with a return / bypass. Anyone have thoughts on a quieter pump, more reliable, etc.? :icon_eyes:

 

[67 B-body]

Mine seems to be on the outs already too!
I too have NO return line hooked up, and wonder if this is a pump killing setup?

 

[Stumper]

I don't know. There's been a lot of discussion about it with many advocating the bypass, but usually because the OEM set up uses one. I'm not convinced yet that that is a good enough rationale, at least for an external gear pump. I tried to look at it from Fluid Mechanics class but that was 30 years ago and I forgot most of my engineering
I think I'll be making some calls on Monday to Holley and maybe some others to get their take.

 

[1962savoy]

you could go with the Aeromotive setup like mine but will cost you alot more to do it. you better off to go get another holley and rubber mount it

 

[63 Savoy]

fuel pump

Hi there----in my humble opinion what kills these pumps is the size of the wire feeding the pump---10 guage min.---need a relay--that little wire on the pump is coated and capable of more amps than it looks--had a mallory 140 for years and it still works---got new car with pump wired wrong---just installed new eddy pump--holley hp150 grenaded---Mike

 

[Stumper]

Do you like the Eddy better than the Holley? I was looking at them but they all seemed to be made with plastic impeller and parts - which is why they are supposed to be quiet.

 

[Cranky]

Hey Stumper, what are you using the car for? Drag racing or just cruising?

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

I like the magna fuel 500.Might be more than you need,but you can dead head it and it gives you room to grow if need be.Get one with the filter & pump together:icon_thumright::icon_thumright:

 

[Stumper]

I've mostly resigned the car to street cruising these days. The motor makes about 675-700 hp so my actual fuel requirement at WOT would be around 55-60 GPH. I don't run a return line currently and at this point would prefer not to add one as I would have to change the regulator, run a line and tap into my fuel cell. If I use a pump that is too big I would really need to run a return line, not to mention it would add to the noise.
I've looked at the quiet Eddy pumps but they seem to be vain impellers and are carbon fiber / plastic. The only non return pumps in the 150 GPH range that I see that use steel gear rotor and stator are the Holley and Mallory..

 

[63 Savoy]

fuel pumps

from what I could gather, there were some issues with the pump motors--wrong specs etc.--the inside of my holley was melted----the eddy pump motor is made in the usa and that is why I went with that one--worked fine at the track ( 650 hp indy cross ram nss motor).now we are goin to cruise night---says something about the economy---good luck with your decision---Mike

 

[Stumper]

I haven't opened the motor section of my Holley but the motor stills runs.... sounds like it pulling a freight train up hill but it does turn over. The pump section is fine from what I can see so it must just be to motor itself. I'm calling Holley first thing in the morning to see what I can learn. I'll have something on order before the day it done tomorrow ........

 

[Cranky]

Used to run a Holley 110 (blue) on my old 10.60 car and dead headed it. That was back in 84 and I still have the pump sitting on the shelf and still use it every now and then to pump out a drum or tank. It was on the very edge at the stripe and my gauge was pretty much at 0 at that point lol.

 

[Stumper]

Cranky, I've had suggestions as you know to go with a much larger system - but I'm really wondering if the HP-150 might not be too big for this motor. I can see where a significantly oversized pump would be more prone to running hot and noisy, especially in a dead headed system. Even if you figure a 1.5 safety factor that still puts my needs at around 100 GPH at 7 psi. The HP150 is 140 GPH at 7 psi.
As soon as Holley wakes up this morning I'll be calling them, and then probably a few other places to get opinions.

 

[Cranky]

You can max out the fuel system at WOT so long as the tires are hooked but with them spinning, you won't max it even if you don't have enough pump. How bout a system with two smaller pumps in parallel? You can run one in cruise mode and when you need more, turn on the other that way you won't have one large pump dead heading all the time and heating up.

 

[Stumper]

Hummm, have to think about that some. I quickly see check valves or electric control valves involved, two fuel line etc.

 

[Stumper]

Just an FYI on this issue - I spent the morning calling around to Holley, Mallory and Summit on this issue. No real indication why my Holley Hp150 failed but the Holley rep thinks it may be due to a choked off inlet... some feedback they gave me:

1) the pump is sized well for the application. Not ttoo big and not too small
2) the pump is perfectly fine in a dead headed application as this since it does have the
internal bypass. No issues at all running it dead head that would huirt the pump.
3) The pump does need a good location to get gravity feed to the suction side. I do
have a good set up as the pump sits lower than my fuel cell sump. It is a push type
pump and not a pull type so a good static head behind it is needed.
4) I have been running a 40 micron screen ahead of the pump - they recommend a 80
to 100 micron before and a 40 micron or less after. This could have been the issue
that caused my pump to fail. 40 micron on the suction is a bit under spec according
to Holley (should be fine according to Summit) but there was a time when the pump
ran for some period with a flugged filter... a 40 micron screen plugged over could
have caused the problem....

Sooooo..... I am going back with another Holley HP150, deadheaded set up as it is and this time plan to install an 85 micron screen in the suction and move the 40 micron to the feed side. We'll see how it goes...

 

[Meep-Meep]

What exactly failed? Motor quit? Swallowed something that tore up the pump module? Take your old pump apart and see if there is any damage to the vanes from particulate material. If the 40 micron screen allows too much crap to get by then you should see the result in scored vanes, rotor and stator - or whatever type of fluid moving design is used.

 

[Stumper]

The pump section is in good shape. The HP150 uses the steel "gear" type impeller and stator. There was a bit of wear on the top and bottom but the vanes were perfect. It's the motor that is shot. The motor sounds like a sick cow when it runs. I haven't checked the amperage but I'm sure it's high. This pump was on the car when I bought it almost three years ago so not sure of it's former life. I do know that after I had it about a year I opened the filter one day to find the screen pretty much blinded over with pieces of the darn fuel cell foam. Given that these pumps don't have any suction head to speak of and rely on gravity feed I'm sure that din't help it. Then..... one day when I came back home with the car I left the ignition on to keep the water pump and fan running for awhile to cool it down - and left the damn fuel pump on too. By the time I checked on it the fuel pump had already blown the fuse.. Don't suspect that episode was any good for it either... One thing smart that I did do with this set up when I found the filter plugged was to install a shut off valve in the suction line so I could "easily" check the filter without draining the cell. I also ordered a new 85 micron filter to go in before the new pump so there is less restriction. I'll move the 40 micron after the pump for more protection.
Now that I'm getting a new pump I'll probably pull the motor out of this one and see what it looks like. I asked Holley if they rebuild these but they don't. Probably no replaceable brushes or anything.

 

[Meep-Meep]

Interesting. Sounds like you have a handle on it though. The sick cow sound could be bad armature bushings - assuming it has bushings.

 

[Stumper]

Funny thing is the shaft felt solid with no perceptable wabble of even for and aft movement. Maybe one day this week I'll pull the old one apart to look see.