Electric Power Steering

[zyzzyx]

I'm sorry guys, but steering by wire is NOT something that I would want in a vehicle. The safety factor is just not 100%! All the work and money to restore a great vehicle, no matter what it is, and your safety while driving it on a public street? With other vehicles? Call me old-fashioned, but the steering on anyvehicle is the most impotant thing. Next is the brakes! I'll be watching!

 

[MikkoV]

I decided to go with electric power steering for relibiality and SAFETY reasons. My Camaro is competition spec drift car, and its really common in that use that serpentine belts pop off or break. Even in oem solutions, but often with engine swaps when rack and p/s pump are from different vehicle. When belt pops in competition situation, that´s usually end of competition and i don´t want to see that happen. Manual steering with electric PS can be driven if it happen to fail, hydro steering cannot if belt pops.

I haven´t had any overheating issues myself with this, and haven´t heard about them at rallycars either, but those are mainly pretty light cars.


By rules, i could not modify front subframe that much for steering rack, so i did use 90degree rorating box from Mazda midsize van, rack itself is from Volvo 240, but with custon infernals. 4" added travel and fast ratio. (that small joint between rack and rotating box was changed to HD one after that pic ;)

 

[HYRDGOON]

I'm sorry guys, but steering by wire is NOT something that I would want in a vehicle. The safety factor is just not 100%! All the work and money to restore a great vehicle, no matter what it is, and your safety while driving it on a public street? With other vehicles? Call me old-fashioned, but the steering on anyvehicle is the most impotant thing. Next is the brakes! I'll be watching!

How can you make that argument? Clearly it's in use on MANY of today's cars...

 

[bigmanjbmopar]

How is the feel? is it tighter? Can it be adjustable?

 

[MikkoV]

Feel in my case is Ok, and it is adjustable.

 

[zyzzyx]

Hi HYRDGOON, I know that it's used on many vehicles but I have a problem trusting an electrical product with my life. Just because the "Engineers" say it's O.K., doesn't mean that it's actually O.K.. As an example, We've put so much of our information on computers and now evry other day we hear about our defense secretsgetting hacked, credit card info, Personal info, etc. Like I said, I guess that I'm old fashioned. I'll be very interested how this works out in the long run. Thanks for listening.

 

[MikkoV]

Hi HYRDGOON, I know that it's used on many vehicles but I have a problem trusting an electrical product with my life. Just because the "Engineers" say it's O.K., doesn't mean that it's actually O.K.. As an example, We've put so much of our information on computers and now evry other day we hear about our defense secretsgetting hacked, credit card info, Personal info, etc. Like I said, I guess that I'm old fashioned. I'll be very interested how this works out in the long run. Thanks for listening.

But these are just electrically power assisted. When these fail, steering is just normal manual steering and can be driven normally just fine. Ofcourse there´s possibility that it starrts to assist in wrong direction but...

I found tradiotinal hydraulic power steering much more dangerous, in many cases when belt pops, line breaks or seals blew from rack, car is pretty much impossible to turn. And in racing i´ve personally seen quite many unplanned offroad racing cause of these and couple bit more than that.

 

[HYRDGOON]

Precisely. I would think failure would be more likely with hydraulic (belt wear, alignment etc..) and it's not like this is being connected to an ECM computer that acts as a brain for the whole car (i.e. "hack-able)

I can understand your hesitation zyzzyx and to each his own but I would think of this as just a different approach with equal likelihood of failure and no further risk...

With that all said though Bherman made some very valid points that make me think it's not right for my heavy car.


Mikko I have a huge soft spot for split bumpers and I absolutely love years. Can't wait to see what you do with your Charger!

 

[lxmodguy]

Hi HYRDGOON, I know that it's used on many vehicles but I have a problem trusting an electrical product with my life. Just because the "Engineers" say it's O.K., doesn't mean that it's actually O.K.. As an example, We've put so much of our information on computers and now evry other day we hear about our defense secretsgetting hacked, credit card info, Personal info, etc. Like I said, I guess that I'm old fashioned. I'll be very interested how this works out in the long run. Thanks for listening.

I doubt they are stealing your credit card info and personal info through your electric power steering. I can't believe how many folks resist modern engineering simply because they don't understand it. Anyone who DRIVES an old car and doesn't have EFI and modern conveniences is just silly. Unless its a concourse restoration of and exceptionally rare car......and then why the hell are you driving it?

 

[CJD AUTO]

Don't forget on OEM electric steering, the motor is controlled by a computer. Just like a hydraulic rack, assist needs to be limited at speeds and increased at slow/parking speeds. I can only comment on the Chrysler systems, but they do not use fluid. Motor only to assist. It uses built in torque sensors, a steering angle sensor in the clock spring, and a VSS input to function correctly. Not sure how the aftermarket electric racks work. I'm guessing they must use the internal torque sensors to calculate steering input vs assist needed, but don't know how you slow down the assist at speed without at least a vehicle speed sensor.

 

[MikkoV]

Don't forget on OEM electric steering, the motor is controlled by a computer. Just like a hydraulic rack, assist needs to be limited at speeds and increased at slow/parking speeds. I can only comment on the Chrysler systems, but they do not use fluid. Motor only to assist. It uses built in torque sensors, a steering angle sensor in the clock spring, and a VSS input to function correctly. Not sure how the aftermarket electric racks work. I'm guessing they must use the internal torque sensors to calculate steering input vs assist needed, but don't know how you slow down the assist at speed without at least a vehicle speed sensor.

In GM steering column with electric PS which i use, only information that comes outside of unit is speed signal. Assist is originally maximum when car is in place, and decreases when speed raises.

So, i have added small "ECU" that generates speed signal pulse, and signal is adjustable but fixed/stationary or how do you say that, so you can adjust assist you want with that. These can be bought on ebay at 30$

It works pretty nicely like this in use.

 

[5.7 hemi]

We just got a "new to us" 2013 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo v6 and it has electric over hydraulic. I think something like this would work as I'm not seeing any wires going to a computer.

 

[CJD AUTO]

We just got a "new to us" 2013 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo v6 and it has electric over hydraulic. I think something like this would work as I'm not seeing any wires going to a computer.

Those are basically mechanical systems with an electric power steering pump (EHPS), instead of belt driven. These pumps can alter hydraulic pressure and flow based on inputs to the EHPS module. Trying to run the pump at a constant voltage would effectively give you maximum flow and pressure, making it undrivable at speed.
The reason you don't see any wires other than the supply voltage, is that the TIPM uses PWM to vary the voltage to the motor. Their are two plugs on the motor. Low voltage supply for the module and high voltage supply for the motor.

 

[5.7 hemi]

Damn, aren't you the barer of bad news, lol!!!

 

[HYRDGOON]

In the Tantrum thread I posted a link to a Jay Leno's Garage where they feature that car. During the test drive they discuss the electric assist steering and how they can dial in the resistance. This definitely isn't on my immediate list of "wants" but I'm not crossing it off either

 

[Hemirunner]

I'm adding it to my list. It solves all the issues of space with a power rack and pump that I really don't have room for under the hood.

 

[HYRDGOON]

That's awesome Hemirunner. You will definitely get to it before it's an option for me so hopefully I'll have your model to go from.

I do think though it is an awesome option without having to worry about space and pulleys.

 

[Kern Dog]

I'd try it if someone is willing to sponsor me and pay the cost!

 

[dickdale]

At this moment I'm in the progress of using a Opel/Vauxhall power steering unit combined with a control unit for variable power steering. The control box uses a proximity sensor or the pulse of the electronic speedometer since I'm going to change the original speedometer.

www.rallywiz.com is selling the control units.

The Corsa EPS Speed Unit can convert your vehicles existing speed pulses into a signal that the Corsa (B or C) ECU expects to see. This gives the EPS ECU the ability to run different assistant levels depending on the vehicle speed:

<15MPH High Power Assistance
15-35MPH Medium Power Assistance
>35MPH Low Power Assistance

You can also just use a simple manual adjustment knob as seen on the website.


The unisteer unit costs 1600 dollars. With the Corsa PS and control unit I think I will be ready for less then 600 dollars.

 

[Cranky]

I doubt they are stealing your credit card info and personal info through your electric power steering. I can't believe how many folks resist modern engineering simply because they don't understand it. Anyone who DRIVES an old car and doesn't have EFI and modern conveniences is just silly. Unless its a concourse restoration of and exceptionally rare car......and then why the hell are you driving it?

Then you can call me silly. I like to drive my old mechanical cars and enjoy them. At least I can pretty much fix minor problems out on the road without having to carry diagnostic test equipment. I do own a couple of modern day cars with EFI etc. and do enjoy not having to pay them much attention and being able to drive them for years without having to change out points, plugs and condenser but imo, that's part of the fun in driving the old junk. Getting under the hood and doing a top notch tune up is just part of the cool factor and they are just so simple but it's also pretty simple to throw on a 70's electronic ignition system and do away with the points.

Now I do not ignore the new stuff either and am amazed at the horsepower numbers the new cars are putting out. It kinda makes me feel like a dinosaur messing with the old stuff until I have to go out and replace a failed computer that ain't cheap after chasing my tail for several hours checking out codes and sensors. For example, my daughter's car eats a cam position sensor about once a year or so for some reason and can't find out why and every now and then it'll take out the crank position sensor and you need monkey hands to replace that bastard! And it seems if you don't have the latest and the greatest diagnostic equipment ($$$$) or know someone that won't charge you 100+ bucks an hour to diagnose it all, you're SOL. But to call someone silly just because they may like to drive something without EFI is well, silly but I thought my dad was silly because he liked Model A Fords. At the time I thought that, I was just a young kid and didn't understand what it was all about and laughed at him for liking a 40 year old relic and now here I am liking a 50 year old relic lol