Ethanol

[cwhubb]

aah, I didnt even consider that, it probably has alot of hippy juice (e85) in it. hense the high octane level

 

[Budnicks]

AV gas is not the solution but maybe mixed with our pump stuff it will help. The problem as far as I know is it's designed to burn at high altitude.

yeah with anti-icing additives, hot light fuel/gasoline, when unblended, but it is high Octane

 

[q-ship]

I have to be the dissenting opinion on this.

Back when they were phasing lead out of gas everyone was howling, even all the magazines, that performance was DEAD!

The obvious reality is that that was about as wrong as a position could be.

The current problem is that there is no national standard, and that winter/summer blends differ. If E85 was the new standard (though it would be a hassle for many performance enthusiasts over the short run), Performance would increase as dramatically as it did from the 60's to now, as well as fuel efficiency. How could this be a bad thing to anyone?

The problem is that the oil industry can spend Billions on lobbying in order to keep their profits. As it now stands, ANY added alcohol has to be domestically grown from corn. We can't import cheap ethanol from countries such as Brazil (which sells ethanol at about .25 cents per gallon to the public), we can't plant sugar cane or other high yield sugary crops for alcohol production, and corn based alcohol cuts into our (and worlds) food supplies.

Yet it's OK to import Brent sea crude at over $112.00 per barrel. Middle eastern oil at $91.00+ per barrel. --- Virtually all analysts and oil industry coalitions predict $200.00++ oil in 5 years!

I for one look forward to the 15.1:1+ compression ratios that alcohol can support (Stroked big block torque and power in a sub small block engine), while achieving fuel millage that beats even the best of the current offerings (even Europe).

What I don't comprehend is the "car guy" world resistance to such a logical/inevitable/cheap solution to the supply and rising price norm of oil. --- 175 years ago there was just as much resistance to switching to petroleum from whale oil! petroleum was slapped with a $2.50 per GALLON surcharge in order to protect the whaling industry (lobbying by the whaling industry).

It was wrong in every level then, and didn't work. It's even more wrong today regarding alcohol, bio-diesel, and any other form of renewable/more modern/improved energy.

I suggest that you jet your carb accordingly and flow with the change.

My couple of cents worth anyway.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Simple. Because alcohol is ghey and gas is cool.

 

[old tired rebel]

Simple. Because alcohol is ghey and gas is cool.

unless it's methanol

 

[RustyRatRod]

unless it's methanol

Look you old coot, you caint drive methanol around on the street. lol

 

[old tired rebel]

Look you old coot, you caint drive methanol around on the street. lol

Could you see the looks on all the police officers faces when you light them up.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Yeah you'd be lightin um up alright. Flames 3 feet outta the headers.

 

[old tired rebel]

Hehehe

 

[jessipup]

We used to run AV gas in our 4stroke racing dirt bikes all the time. High octane like VP or Superfuels. Not Exactly? not legal for street use but who will check it. It does acrry a different coloring so they can tell its off road/AV just by looking at it. And it is taxed differently. Like farm use is it also carries a tint to it.

 

[cwhubb]

I did do alot of research on e85, the rubber seal, lines, hose damage is almost inmeasurable, the test soaked them in concentrations way higher than you will ever encounter, the thermal btu yield is lower than gas, thats why you have to use big jets, fuel lines and bigger fuel pumps to use more fuel volume to make up for the loss of energy created by e85, the octane level is great but it can vary greatly with every "batch" as can the total percentage of ethyenol it's not always 85 percent sometimes its way lower, quality control isnt as strict as gas. alchohol attracts and stores water so in winter it can make for hard starts, first hand experience with my caravan.
I didnt get as good of mileage with the e85 as with gas but thats related to the btu per unit thing. But I have read nothing but raves for using it in hp engines, its getting a big following with the drag race crowd

 

[Budnicks]

I did do alot of research on e85, the rubber seal, lines, hose damage is almost inmeasurable, the test soaked them in concentrations way higher than you will ever encounter, the thermal btu yield is lower than gas, thats why you have to use big jets, fuel lines and bigger fuel pumps to use more fuel volume to make up for the loss of energy created by e85, the octane level is great but it can vary greatly with every "batch" as can the total percentage of ethyenol it's not always 85 percent sometimes its way lower, quality control isnt as strict as gas. alchohol attracts and stores water so in winter it can make for hard starts, first hand experience with my caravan.
I didnt get as good of mileage with the e85 as with gas but thats related to the btu per unit thing. But I have read nothing but raves for using it in hp engines, its getting a big following with the drag race crowd

Alcohol, it has some great cooling properties/benefits, it's high octane too, it burns slow, no big deal in a drag racing engine, they are maintained allot more than a typical soccer moms mini van, as long as you drain the alochol fuels regularly, flush/clean the tank, filters & lines with gasoline &/or also use the proper additives, it's not really a big deal, but it's not the same as straight gasoline at all... All alcohols all have some sort of corrosive properties & especially Methanol, Ethanol & other grain alcohols is much lower, especially when mixed with gasoline at very low % levels, like 10%-15%, but it is still corrosive to steel, aluminum & rubber, then the condensation {especially if you live in extreme climates of high humidity, cold or hot} & other contaminants are issues, rust in the fuel system, eating/rusting/corroding steel fuel tanks & lines from the inside & fuel lines or O-rings that are "pure rubber" from the inside, not the Neoprene or Silcone Blended Rubbers, Teflon lined hoses or even Stainless Steel lines &/or fittings... The big issue is consumption rates are 70% more per/% of alcohol, leaning the engine, corrosive properties no matter how minor or washing the cylinders walls down {unless you use some kind of top cylinder lubricant/additive at an added cost of cource}, making parts like ring pistons & bearings wear out faster, unburnt alcohol going by the rings & possibly contaminating the oil also, in poorly tuned engines... But any type alcohol you use in an internal combustion engine for fuel, it takes 70% more fuel to get the proper air fuel mixtures for the same % volume of alcohol VS straight gasoline @ appr. about 14:1 A/F ratio for gasoline & appr. about 9.8:1 A/F ratio for any type alcohol fuel.... IMHFO it will probably never be able to get the 40mpg USA federal cafe milage standards that the gasoline engines have today {at-least with our current & readily available internal combustion engine technology}, it would need to be far more effiecent {have 70% larger fuel tank, to go the same distance}, than any alcohols currenty produced, in any country today... Countries like Brazil have a govt. ran, set & subsidized fuel & crop price std. & the tropical weather to grow, corn, sugar cane & sugar beats in abundance, to produce the alcohol cheaply, with out adversely effecting food or cattle grain prices, they also have a much smaller population to cater to, they don't export the fuel either, they keep it for themselves, that's how I understand how countries like Brazil does it any how....

 

[Cranky]

Last time I checked, av gas does NOT contain ethanol. Yeah, it's blended for high altitudes but it also has to work at low altitudes. Avgas has a lower and more uniform vapor pressure than automotive gasoline so it remains in the liquid state despite the reduced atmospheric pressure at high altitude, thus preventing vapor lock. You just have to experiment to see how much it takes to keep your engine from pinging. It only took 1 gallon to a full tank of 93 octane gas in my 10.5-1 340 Cuda with a stock cam to keep it from pinging on a 100 degree day with an engine temp of 190. In the winter time, I didn't add any avgas to it....

 

[mguesto]

I have had the "Fun" of putting some AV fuel in my GTX when i first got it. And 5 minutes after shutting it down in my garage, my smoke alarm goes off with the "Warning, warning, Carbon monoxide warning. HAHAHAHAAA
Brought back memories of mixing Hess 101 and Amoco hightest ( the white stuff) Those exhaust oders would make your eyes water.

I was warned that the AV fuel will eat out the Cats quickly and they can be very expensive. Luckily my two cars are non catalitic ones.

Then i find that there is a local gas station that bought out an old Gulf station near the ABE airport and he has the Sonoco race fuels
at the pumps. Non ethenol about 20 cents above the other stations around. I try and use that a lot for storage so it does not eat out the ruber lines and paper filters if there are any.

The race blend is over $9 per gallon.
Matt


PS: that #85 gives my 2011 Silverado the diarehha, can't use that at all.

 

[383MovingViolation]

Ethanol is ALL your go'nna get SOON. Thank the government. Soon it will be 15% THEN 20%. It eats all rubber stuff. Of coarse they will deny it but it's fact. It's just a way of keeping classic cars off the road. Thank the tree huggers and all the green people.

 

[pabster]

Wow. Good thing I only put 92 Chevron in my Charger. We got Ethanol up the wazoo here in the Bay Area, I just hope for the best.

 

[Meep-Meep]

Wow. Good thing I only put 92 Chevron in my Charger. We got Ethanol up the wazoo here in the Bay Area, I just hope for the best.

Assuming your Charger is a stock 318 you shouldn't need 92 octane (perhaps you mean 91). Personally I'd see how it likes 87 and if it doesn't like it then go up a notch to 89. Save a few bucks anyway.

 

[pabster]

Yeah, you're right Meep. I think it is 91. I guess I could go 89... I fill up the Charger about once a month, so the price difference isn't that big of a deal. And Avocado Gold has treated me so right, I want to pamper it with the best!

 

[Meep-Meep]

I have to be the dissenting opinion on this.

Back when they were phasing lead out of gas everyone was howling, even all the magazines, that performance was DEAD!

The obvious reality is that that was about as wrong as a position could be.

The current problem is that there is no national standard, and that winter/summer blends differ. If E85 was the new standard (though it would be a hassle for many performance enthusiasts over the short run), Performance would increase as dramatically as it did from the 60's to now, as well as fuel efficiency. How could this be a bad thing to anyone?

The problem is that the oil industry can spend Billions on lobbying in order to keep their profits. As it now stands, ANY added alcohol has to be domestically grown from corn. We can't import cheap ethanol from countries such as Brazil (which sells ethanol at about .25 cents per gallon to the public), we can't plant sugar cane or other high yield sugary crops for alcohol production, and corn based alcohol cuts into our (and worlds) food supplies.

Yet it's OK to import Brent sea crude at over $112.00 per barrel. Middle eastern oil at $91.00+ per barrel. --- Virtually all analysts and oil industry coalitions predict $200.00++ oil in 5 years!

I for one look forward to the 15.1:1+ compression ratios that alcohol can support (Stroked big block torque and power in a sub small block engine), while achieving fuel millage that beats even the best of the current offerings (even Europe).

What I don't comprehend is the "car guy" world resistance to such a logical/inevitable/cheap solution to the supply and rising price norm of oil. --- 175 years ago there was just as much resistance to switching to petroleum from whale oil! petroleum was slapped with a $2.50 per GALLON surcharge in order to protect the whaling industry (lobbying by the whaling industry).

It was wrong in every level then, and didn't work. It's even more wrong today regarding alcohol, bio-diesel, and any other form of renewable/more modern/improved energy.

I suggest that you jet your carb accordingly and flow with the change.

My couple of cents worth anyway.

Sure, the new cars seem to work fine on this new 10% swill because they are designed for it. They even make unprecedented amounts of HP while keeping the emission levels at an all time low, but unless the average low buck hot rodder finds a few G's for port EFI and computer programmed ignition they will suffer the ill effects of the carburetor.

Back in the 80's I had no issues running around with a torker and the heat crossover open, but now even with every possible thermal insulation technique, it's impossible if you expect to restart your car after a 20 min soak in the heat or parking it in the garage and not small gas vapor for three days. The gas now can not tolerate sitting in a pot on a hot stove plain and simple.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Just one more reason to run a good return system. preach preach preach. lol