Gen2 Hemi experts. Review my refresh plan?

[Hemirunner]

I was just concerned about roller as I've read about lifter failures. Bushed rollers I think are $1000+ which I could do but is it worth it on this build?

Solid flat tappet with EDM tool steel lightweight lifters and you’re good to go to 7500 rpm at a fraction of the cost of a roller.

 

[Challenger340]

Solid flat tappet with EDM tool steel lightweight lifters and you’re good to go to 7500 rpm at a fraction of the cost of a roller.

I have NO IDEA why guys try to run race mechanical roller profiles on the street.... the criterion I attach to "race" Roller profiles being those requiring 550 Lb per Inch V/Spring rates ?
Because, and very simply here.... it is the V/Springs that typically go "soft" over time in the "street" environment when using the RACE Mechanical Roller Cam profiles ? .... which then invariable is the root causes of Lifter/Rocker and other FAILURES in the "street" environment.
and really....
the "street" Roller Mechanical Cam designs..... that just don't make diddly extra power over a well selected Mechanical Flat Tappet anyway ?
so WHAT's the F**King POINT ?

So for clarification here ?
There are 2 Kinds of "Mechanical Roller" Cams.....
RACE Rollers..... those profiles designed for Track/limited usage, and typically indentified by Requiring V/Spring Rates of 550# and HIGHER ?
and,
STREET Rollers..... those profiles designed for extended street driving and usage, typically identified by sub 500# V/Spring rate requirements..... but that just do NOT make didly "extra" power over a well tuned/selected Flat Tappet ?

And for all the wing-nuts who READ David Vizards book and believe otherwise ? you just carry on, believe whatever you want and do as you please.

And for the OP ?
If all you are looking to do is 650-670hp ?
WTF do you need a Roller anything for THAT ?

 

[INTMD8]

If a well designed SFT will make similar power to a "street" roller than I will for sure run SFT.

I'm sure the lifter diameter helps.

Thanks for the info guys.

 

[dieseldazzle]

Personally, Im done with roller cams in big block mopars and chevies (for that matter). In my BBM 505s both the trick flow and eddie head motors I will be willing to give up whatever, if anything, I am for the sanity. In my 412ci BBC using the same....Ive had such bad luck with roller **** Morels even. Using lightweight tool steel edm solid lifters and flat tappet lunati cams has been great.

 

[INTMD8]

Is there a preferred edm tool steel lifter or all are good?

 

[6PKRTSE]

Is there a preferred edm tool steel lifter or all are good?

I am no expert. I just have a little ole 528" Hemi. I like your approach to your build so far, good input from everyone. Mine was the best of the best parts that I could afford.

 

[rev.ronnie]

Crate engines are notoriously horrible. One well know supplier doesn’t bother to index or locate cylinders on the blocks, which is an absolute MUST on Mopar performance hemi bocks. They don’t correct the line bore either.

I’d have the cam tunnel blueprinted and the lifter bores located and bushed as well. Use an .080” feed hole in the bushing.
I’d say that I have to correct 2/3 of all the production block cam tunnels and I’ve never seen a MP performance block that was even within .005” on center-to-center and sway.

Get the foundation right while you have it apart.

 

[INTMD8]

And for the OP ?
If all you are looking to do is 650-670hp ?
WTF do you need a Roller anything for THAT ?

Reading this again it seems you are a bit aggravated? Not sure why, this is a discussion about the combination and parts selection so of course the various options will be mentioned.

So WTF did I mention a roller for THAT?!?!?!?!

Well, it would be because I don't have to worry about a cam lobe going flat or breaking it in with a single spring and changing them all in the car. More aggressive ramps at a given max lift which would generally result in more power for a similar spec. (though in this case you are saying the sft is similar for something mild)

Now we are getting into roller lifter reliability and the tool steel/edm lifter option which seems like the best choice.......a result of discussing the options.

 

[rev.ronnie]

Personally, Im done with roller cams in big block mopars and chevies (for that matter). In my BBM 505s both the trick flow and eddie head motors I will be willing to give up whatever, if anything, I am for the sanity. In my 412ci BBC using the same....Ive had such bad luck with roller **** Morels even. Using lightweight tool steel edm solid lifters and flat tappet lunati cams has been great.

Have you been correcting your camshaft tunnel and lifter bores on your builds?
I’m going to say that most often the interface between the cam and lifter being incorrect is responsible for failure more than any other reason.
There is so much at play when they are not correct. Roller lifters will fail miserably if they are not perfectly aligned 90° from the cam. Solids will fail to rotate and can even push the cam out the front, causing timing variations if the cam and lifter locations are not properly machined.
Cams and lifters always take the blame, even though the end user has often taken no steps to correct his block. It’s actually very unfair to manufacturers from what I’ve seen.
I have yet to see a cam tunnel and lifter bores on the same Mopar block within spec. Sometimes one or the other...rarely.

 

[6PKRTSE]

Have you been correcting your camshaft tunnel and lifter bores on your builds?
I’m going to say that most often the interface between the cam and lifter being incorrect is responsible for failure more than any other reason.
There is so much at play when they are not correct. Roller lifters will fail miserably if they are not perfectly aligned 90° from the cam. Solids will fail to rotate and can even push the cam out the front, causing timing variations if the cam and lifter locations are not properly machined.
Cams and lifters always take the blame, even though the end user has often taken no steps to correct his block. It’s actually very unfair to manufacturers from what I’ve seen.
I have yet to see a cam tunnel and lifter bores on the same Mopar block within spec. Sometimes one or the other...rarely.

I corrected and bronze bushed my lifter bores and also went to 55MM roller cam bearings in my Mega block.

 

[Hemirunner]

I corrected and bronze bushed my lifter bores and also went to 55MM roller came bearings in my Mega block.

Bushed and restricted lifter bores here in an aluminum block but with a standard cam tunnel cuz it’s just a street car.

 

[68 HEMI GTS]

Bushed and restricted lifter bores here in an aluminum block but with a standard cam tunnel cuz it’s just a street car.

should work well with the 3/4 purple stripe cam you picked out for that street car

 

[Hemirunner]

should work well with the 3/4 purple stripe cam you picked out for that street car

I used the 528 purple cam cuz I heard it had better street manners! Never mind the DLC coated axle bushed lifters or the dry sump. Basic street car stuff! Lol

 

[rev.ronnie]

I used the 528 purple cam cuz I heard it had better street manners! Never mind the DLC coated axle bushed lifters or the dry sump. Basic street car stuff! Lol

Now BAM has started to use the DLC axle and no bushing at all. Pretty cool.

 

[wyrmrider]

I'd check the compression with a .500 down fill method
agree on the SFT cam and EDM lifters
that mother has really long exhaust duration which a Hemi certainly does not need unless you want noise and not power
for a cam work only with those that know street hemis
I'd start with our local Crower rep i think dart19666

 

[INTMD8]

If I had to guess the previous owner wanted it to sound radical but didn't have too much concern about actual power output.

Once I get flow numbers I'll spec the cam.

 

[wyrmrider]

way to go
flow and compression and all that jazz

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

I learned the hard way with an aggressive lobe solid roller and 700# over the nose with comp 829 lifters that it does not live too long on the street and had a lifter failure and wiped a lobe on the cam. Also had total contamination of the oil system. With being said I went to a NON bypass dual oil filters to handle the volumes of a milodon oil system. I then had a second lifter failure but NO contamination in the oil system.After that I tried to use Isky red zone products but they were not as advertised.
So I then went to the the Comp 848 which is an AMC lifter with pushrod oiling capable with pressurized oil to the needle bearings in the lifter wheel. The new cam has a much less aggressive lobe and 625ish # of spring pressure over the nose and 325 on the seat as I'm boosted. These lifters went 5k miles street driving and 3 or 4 weekends at the track before I took it out for the winter for PM. Sent them out for a rebuild and Comp said they were fine!! I had them rebuild anyway and went 6k miles before a few lifter started to go away.

 

[INTMD8]

Making very slow progress.

Ended up going with Morel black mamba lifters and did a bit more work on the heads.

Ordered the Pro Flo 4 2x4 efi but they keep pushing back the date on it.

Custom CP pistons and also have some flow numbers.

 

[INTMD8]

I personally like your approach. The fun factor of high rpm, manual tranny at the power level your looking at will be incredible. I think you can get there with the std stroke. I would consider a gentle lobe, roundy-round type solid roller.

Its been a long time but can confirm that high rpm, manual trans and 4.10 gears is a blast on the street. Thinking really it could go up to near 8000rpm from the current 7600 limiter but I'm going to leave it here for now.

438ci, 12.4-1, Holley EFI, home ported iron heads, coyote coil on plug. Mild solid roller, 262/262 I think .670/.615 on a 112 (drives smooth). Flex fuel/E85.