Gun advice for a newbie

[dave5237]

Hello. Well I am not going to say what the last guys didn't all-ready say. I have a 9mm,357 and a .38 Smith & Wesson. I would recommend the .38. Its easy to shoot and compact.

 

[MalamuteJohn]

Not a lot I can add - Mssrs Budniks and Bruzilla hit the most salient points. EDUCATE your kids ; hiding the thing where you cant get to it easily is worthless. Teach the kid to shoot too - not only will they enjoy it, it teaches them respect for the weapon.
I tend to advise a short shotgun like a Mossberg 500 for firstline home defence. You cant miss at the distance inside most houses, and if the first round isnt fatal, it gives you time to rack in another round while theyre reeling from the first hit/shock of being shot at. Plus you dont have the 'travel' issues of a big pistol if you live in town. Were i to pop a round of 357 off in my living room, it will travel thru the next door neighbours living room also... The Judge alleviates that problem firing 410 as it does, and remains small and easily handled. Not much kinetic energy, but it'll do the job. If, of course, you can get past the GTO reference that undoubtedly pops up in your mind...

 

[scotts74birds]

Just my quick $0.02? I have nowhere near the experience with firearms as some folks here. But I DID live on the East side of Detroit for 20 years. I found the best home defense weapon was the SOUND of a Remington 870 being "racked"! The reputation of being the "Crazy Biker" on the street also cut down on random acts of stupidity by the local dirtbags. This is accomplished by going into the backyard and cranking-off 3 rounds at about 2 in the morning. The next day, you let your dirtbag, crack-head, neighbors, see you put a few heavy garbage bags into your trunk. And put out a roll of carpet at the curb for the trash pick-up! The local "tweakers" wont even make eye-contact after that.

 

[Ron 73]

I do believe everyone has this covered, emphasis on teaching the young-uns! I keep a shot gun behind my chair and a loaded 32 within grabbing distance if needed... I live in the country and off the road a bit but here is where the drug deals go down on this road, ive seen more then one car be chased by the cops at night.. I will add this, You would do well in maybe preventing some local dirtbags by buying a set or two of security cameras and set up.. There is some that is around 100 bucks that work great i think, and a lot of the time if someones looking to break in sees them they might think twice seeing the cameras outside watching..

 

[scotts74birds]

Thats good advice Ron! I'm rural also. I set-up a game camera to see who comes and goes. The step-kid was having people over when we were out.

 

[MarPar]

get 'em while you can!!!

Wow! cant believe i didn't see this thread all day!!! lol

i'm pretty much in the same boat as you, Pabster....lookin for something solid for the house....

I like this one; http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/p229.aspx

haven't shot it yet, but i think i can rent a reasonable facsimile here;

http://www.gunworldrange.com/Home_Page.html

(It's in Lombard, IL for any of you other flatlanders out there. lol) .

but then i get to thinking...a semi-auto pistol would be nice for target practice, but if it's going to be at hand in the house, it needs to be a guaranteed man-stopper.

a .357 mag fits the bill nicely. revolvers rarely ever jam (only if you don't take care of them) and if you happen to miss with the first volley, just the sound will make anybody **** their pants and run out!!!

if they're stupid, you still have 5 more shells to defend the homestead.

 

[Ron 73]

Thats good advice Ron! I'm rural also. I set-up a game camera to see who comes and goes. The step-kid was having people over when we were out.

Thats cool, thats one reason i got mine was to watch the deer in the back, but found that if i put another camera outside on the porch, i could see someone coming in and as you know, you can hook them up to a VCR and set it for motion detect and it automatically starts recording if anything comes in view.. I ended up buying two more

 

[Bruzilla]

Very good post Bruzilla, but I forgot something and so did you. Learn to shoot with both eyes open! You sure ain't about to take aim and close one eye to hit your target. Also, it doesn't hurt to own more than one fire arm. Right now there's 3 in the house and 3 in my shop....and no, they are not all together

Shooting with both eyes open isn't something a newbie needs to learn. They'll do that on their own. That's something you need to train an experienced shooter to do, but even then it's not a great strategy.

People who haven't actually been attacked by someone don't really understand the physiology of it. We have several defensive instincts that trump any and all training we receive. Using your strong hand to fend off an attacker is one, but another is to close your eyes when your brain perceives a threat to the head. It may be for just a few seconds, but your eyes will go shut. This is where training instinctive shooting and natural pointing come into play.

If we're going to go that far into the depths, it's important to note that the natural positioning of a pistol in the human hand, given the design of the frame to accomodate a box magazine, is going to elevate the barrel when the pistol is instinctively aimed. The curved frame of a revolver allows for pretty straight pointing without a need to compensate for the frame. Cops and others firing pistols instinctively in crisis/panic situations tend to miss high because their hands are telling their brains the gun is pointed straight and level, but the barrel is actually about 1/2" higher than their minds perceive it to be. It takes a lot of practice to get to a point where you compensate for barrel elevation on a pistol automatically, and many folks who are just buying a gun for home defense don't put in that much practice. Another reason to start out with a revolver.

 

[Bruzilla]

Just my quick $0.02? I have nowhere near the experience with firearms as some folks here. But I DID live on the East side of Detroit for 20 years. I found the best home defense weapon was the SOUND of a Remington 870 being "racked"! The reputation of being the "Crazy Biker" on the street also cut down on random acts of stupidity by the local dirtbags. This is accomplished by going into the backyard and cranking-off 3 rounds at about 2 in the morning. The next day, you let your dirtbag, crack-head, neighbors, see you put a few heavy garbage bags into your trunk. And put out a roll of carpet at the curb for the trash pick-up! The local "tweakers" wont even make eye-contact after that.

I hear that line about "the sound of a shotgun being racked" as being a great deterrent to home invaders all the time, but it's got no basis in fact. Most people who are foolish enough to use a shotgun for home defense move a round into the chamber as soon as they pick the gun up. They don't wait until they are within earshot of an intruder, so the intruder never hears that racking sound. It's just one of those things you see happening in movies or TV that just doesn't happen often in real life.

Here's a good story though. When I was with a Sheriff's office in MD years ago, I had a deputy in a foot chase through backyards with a bad guy, and as he got close the deputy pulled his collapsible baton and opened it. The bad guy dropped to the ground so fast the deputy tripped over him and went ***-over-teacups. After cuffing the guy, he asked him why he stopped running and fell to the ground, and he said he had heard a shotgun being racked and thought he was about to get shot. What he had heard was the baton opening, but hey... it worked, so sometimes the myth works for you.

 

[roadrunnerh]

If you aren't looking to carry the weapon while you are away from the house, and if you are only looking for something easy to handle and practice with, buy a .38 all steel revolver with a 3" or 4" barrel. my 2 cents....

 

[Bruzilla]

Wow! cant believe i didn't see this thread all day!!! lol

i'm pretty much in the same boat as you, Pabster....lookin for something solid for the house....

I like this one; http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/p229.aspx

haven't shot it yet, but i think i can rent a reasonable facsimile here;

http://www.gunworldrange.com/Home_Page.html

(It's in Lombard, IL for any of you other flatlanders out there. lol) .

but then i get to thinking...a semi-auto pistol would be nice for target practice, but if it's going to be at hand in the house, it needs to be a guaranteed man-stopper.

a .357 mag fits the bill nicely. revolvers rarely ever jam (only if you don't take care of them) and if you happen to miss with the first volley, just the sound will make anybody **** their pants and run out!!!

if they're stupid, you still have 5 more shells to defend the homestead.

Don't get too hung up on whether your ammunition is a "manstopper", or transferred energy, or any other hyper-technical aspect of shooting if you just need a gun for home protection. Control and ease of shooting is far more important than "manstoppers" for several reasons.

First, most likely you'll never shoot anyone, but if you do you're going to be scared, panicked, and have adrenaline pumping though you like you've never experienced before. In these situations, even trained, experienced, shooters tend to fire-until-empty. The LAPD did a study back in the 50's/60's dealing with this. They interviewed cops who had just been in shootings and asked how many times they fired. Many cops were sure they had fired two or three shots, but examination of their revolvers showed they had not only fired all five or six shots but all the primers had multiple hammer stikes, meaning the cops had continued pulling the trigger after the gun was empty without ever realizing it. A great case of this condition was the Diallo shooting where cops fired 41 shots. They didn't shoot that many times on purpose, it's just that when you are in full fear for your life, you fire without thinking about how many times you're pulling the trigger. So worrying about whether a single shot is a "manstopper" is mostly a waste of time because most likely you'll be emptying your gun at an intruder, and even a .22 will kill or incapacitate someone in that situation.

Second, if you look at the outcomes of most defensive home shootings, you'll see that it's rare for the bad guy to be found dead at the residence. Most of the time they are found dead after fleeing the house or they turn up wounded at the hospital. This is because despite all the times shooters hear about, or practice, targeting the center mass (chest) to put the bad guy down in his tracks, these situations are never like practice and when they go into panic mode and rapid fire high-recoil catridges like .357 Magnums, .44 Magnums, .45 ACP, etc., muzzle climb and lateral movements kick their aim to pieces and they do no more damage than someone with more controllable .38 Special or 9 MM would do.

Lastly, larger caliber ammunition such as .357 Magnum, .44 Magnum, .45 ACP, etc., is a lot more expensive than .38 Special or 9 MM, and the more expensive ammo is, the less you're going to want to fire it at practice. You can get around this with .357 Magnum revolvers by firing cheaper .38 Special rounds with it, but felt recoil with the .38 Special is much less than a .357 Magnum, so your practice isn't going to be very realistic.

Go with a good 9 MM pistol like a Sig/Sauer, or a .38 Special revolver to start with and you'll be much better off than getting some hand cannon.

 

[BIGSHCLUNK]

Lots of great advise here thats for sure so if I missed this my apologies. Get something that feels good in your hand. You will only have the chance (most likely) to grab it once. I kept a .38 special in the night stand for years but no more. For me CZ P-01 imedeate good "feel" for me. My other 2cents.. minimum 9mm for stopping power. Remember your intent is to stop the threat not play cowboy.

 

[Cranky]

Just my quick $0.02? I have nowhere near the experience with firearms as some folks here. But I DID live on the East side of Detroit for 20 years. I found the best home defense weapon was the SOUND of a Remington 870 being "racked"! The reputation of being the "Crazy Biker" on the street also cut down on random acts of stupidity by the local dirtbags. This is accomplished by going into the backyard and cranking-off 3 rounds at about 2 in the morning. The next day, you let your dirtbag, crack-head, neighbors, see you put a few heavy garbage bags into your trunk. And put out a roll of carpet at the curb for the trash pick-up! The local "tweakers" wont even make eye-contact after that.

Even tho I don't have a bike anymore, my neighbors already think I'm the crazy biker that has tamed down in my 'golden' years lol. I think the firing of a 3/4" bore home made cannon may have had put things over the top

Shooting with both eyes open isn't something a newbie needs to learn. They'll do that on their own. That's something you need to train an experienced shooter to do, but even then it's not a great strategy.

People who haven't actually been attacked by someone don't really understand the physiology of it. We have several defensive instincts that trump any and all training we receive. Using your strong hand to fend off an attacker is one, but another is to close your eyes when your brain perceives a threat to the head. It may be for just a few seconds, but your eyes will go shut. This is where training instinctive shooting and natural pointing come into play.

If we're going to go that far into the depths, it's important to note that the natural positioning of a pistol in the human hand, given the design of the frame to accomodate a box magazine, is going to elevate the barrel when the pistol is instinctively aimed. The curved frame of a revolver allows for pretty straight pointing without a need to compensate for the frame. Cops and others firing pistols instinctively in crisis/panic situations tend to miss high because their hands are telling their brains the gun is pointed straight and level, but the barrel is actually about 1/2" higher than their minds perceive it to be. It takes a lot of practice to get to a point where you compensate for barrel elevation on a pistol automatically, and many folks who are just buying a gun for home defense don't put in that much practice. Another reason to start out with a revolver.

Works for me. I leaned how to shoot with both eyes open over time. Wasn't that hard for me to learn but everyone is different. And you ain't wrong crisis situations. I've been in a couple and they are not fun and no shots were even fired. I've been in two but the second one made my back hurt to bad that I thought I was going to pass out! Talk about tensing up. I was a 'white hat' in the AF and nothing ever happened there that ever prepared me for what happened on the outside but this one incident made me take the extra steps to be better prepared if something like that ever happened again. I hope I am better prepared at least and hope it never happens again!

 

[Bruzilla]

LOL You're the first person I've heard of who had to learn to shoot with both eyes open. The hardest thing to get new shooters to do has been getting used to shooting with one eye open... especially women (I'm guessing because they don't grow up playing cops & robbers as kids).

My first incident was when I was guarding our planes in Sicily one night. It was our crew duty week, and I was stuck with the ramp watch that night. A very intoxicated Marine showed up, grabbed a tie down chain, and started swinging it at our Orions. I ran over to him and told him to stop, and he stopped swinging the chain at the plane and started coming at me. I'm 6'6", and I pretty big guy, but his beer goggles didn't see that. He took a couple of swings at me with the chain, and I kept ducking the swings until I got an opening and pounced on him. I took a couple of punches getting him down and cuffed, but no big deal.

By the time base security showed up, I was just coming down off the rush. I was telling the head of security, my CO, the base CO, and the Marine barrack CO what happened. When I told them the guy came at me swinging some serious chain, the security chief said "I'm surprised you didn't you shoot him!" I got this hillarious look on my face (because they all started laughing) because it wasn't until he said that, that I remembered I was armed! I had to tell them that in all honesty, I had been wearing that 1911A1 on my hip for a week, and when all this went down, I never even thought about it. I got so hitched up in the reflective responses that I totally forgot I was armed! All those months of practice, weeks of qualifying, and years of thinking I knew exactly what I would do in that situation went right out the window!

 

[Cranky]

Well, I didn't 'have' to learn but just wanted to. I can also shoot pretty good left handed.

The AF told us if we had to shoot someone, shoot at the legs. WTH?? I knew I was either in the wrong field or the instructors were morons. Another time I stopped the base CO because his car didn't have the proper placard on the front when he came in the main gate. That's the driver's responsibility and when I saw there was a passenger in the back seat, I stopped them to check out what the deal was. The CO thanked me but ripped his driver lol but the powers that be in the cop shop didn't like me doing that. Seems to be it had something to do with me being a newbie. Again, WTH? The brass is supposed to have their insignia on the vehicle if they are in it, plain and simple. After a couple more small incidents like that I started telling the Flight Chief and his cronies what I thought about them and 'their' screwed up AF and asked them why I'm even here if I'm not supposed to do my job.....

And didn't mean to highjack the thread but I think it has pretty much been answered. Lots of good info here for sure.

 

[cr8crshr]

OK...

Taurus Judge revolver, shoots shot shells and .45 cartridges. Will defend your home perfectly.

Yep...A good choice. But here in CA it is illegal to have one as it is classified as a short barreled shotgun by its being 410/45 Long Colt. Now there is a way around this. Rossi Firearms has a product called the Circuit Judge that is actually the Taurus Judge married into an 18 inch rifle stock. You can clearly see this if you go to Rossi's web site. That is legal in CA even though it is the 410/45 Long Colt set up. Go figure...The State Dept of Justice and our overly dysfunctional State Assembly cannot see past their own clouded view that they are actually one in the same except one being longer barreled. I can go to Walmart or Sports Authority and order one and have it legally here in the State. But have the revolver???? They won't find mine.... :happy8:

Now...If I could I would get Smith and Wesson's Governer...410/45 Long Colt/45 ACP. Three in one makes for a perfect PD weapon...:hello2:

 

[pabster]

You guys are great. I really appreciate the advice, and also the stories that back it up. Feel free to tell the tales, it helps to give me a complete picture of what I'm about to tackle.

Based on what I'm hearing, it's going to come down to a 9mm pistol or a .38 revolver, depending on what feels right. As much as the shotgun has been mentioned, I'm not at the point of taking that step. Luckily, I live in an area with very low violent crime, and the one time I called 911 because we thought our baby was choking, we had a sheriff, 2 paramedics and 4 firemen in our house in under 5 minutes.

Figure I'll start with a pistol and move on from there. Knowing me, I'll get so into shooting that Ill have an arsenal before too long!

 

[Bruzilla]

Guns are just like any other tool. Some folks use the right tool for the job, but there's always plenty of Tim "The Tool Man" Taylors out there who want more power and end up blowing up their house, family, pets, budgets, or themselves. ;)

It used to be the primary threat was an unarmed burglar coming into the house at night, and this guy would haul *** as soon as there was any sign someone was awake yet alone armed. Nowadays you have home invaders who have no qualms with entering a home where the residents are awake and about because they are well armed themselves and feel they can take control of the residents before they can mount a defense. This is why there is a need to have a defensive weapon that is ready to go at a second's notice.

In reality, the best thing you can do is not have a lot of guns stashed around the house, but wireless phones. Have a handset accessible in every major room. In the event of an invasion, call 911 and drop the phone. You don't have to say a word to anybody. If the operator can't find out what's happening, they dispatch an officer, and if the call disconnects, and they can't get a callback through, the send the calvary. But the best advice about getting a gun is still a story from the old west...

Back in the gold rush days, a young man enters a gun store and asks the owner if he should buy a gun before going to California. The young man asks "do you think I'll really need one?", and the shop owners replies "maybe so, maybe not. Only thing for sure is if you ever do need one, you won't have time to go get one."

 

[ChgrSteve67]

I was watching Top Shot last night and they were firing a S&W M&P 40. They were saying some good things about it for reliability and accuracy.

I looked on line at my local range and dealer and they listed 9mm and 40 cal for under $500

I think I'm going to go check them out, they look pretty sweet for the price.

Steve

 

[Moparsmitty]

A few thoughts.
First,If you are going to arm yourself against burglars, home invaders,or other possible intrusions, get some good gun training. You might be a decent shot but there is always something to learn about handling these situations.
Second, spend a little money reenforcing your home against illegal entry. Most people are amazed how easy it is to kick most front doors open. Door and window bars are cheap and will deter many criminals. They won't stop a determined pro but the extra few seconds it takes to get by any deterrent can make all the difference in the effectiveness of your response.
Lastly, think about what will happen if you actually kill an intruder. I'm not saying that you shouldn't defend yourself. I think you have every right to and you should do whatever is necessary to defend yourself and your family. But are you willing to shoot and kill the unarmed neighbor kid when he breaks into your house looking for dope money. Thing happen very quickly when you are awakened in the middle of the night and the adrenaline is running. Easy to make a mistake that you can't fix.
By the way, nothing like a 12 Ga. pump for home defense. Big, loud and empties a room in a hurry. Much safer than a pistol. Much harder to shoot yourself. Just my humble opinions.