Help with engine decision. :(

[grander]

Hi All,
First off, as always thanks in advance, tons of knowledge on here... Second - apologies for the long read!
I have a '64 Phoenix (330/440 4 door) that I can't make a decision on an engine for.
I already have a cruiser in the shape of my 63 cadillac so am planning on adding to the bruiser part of the shed.
Wants are to possibly run in the 11's at the track but also see some sprint time at the local circuit. I also want to take part in the local 'drag challenge' which is a similar to your drag week.
Currently running a 727tf (stuffed and needs rebuild) and 3.9 9"ford though would love to change out to a 5sp manual sometime.

SO, initially the way I see it is:
360/408:
Pro's - already set up for.
Cons - projected end $$$
383 6 pack:
Pro's - It's a big block. It's a 6 pack.
Cons - comparable power output? Weight. Transmission and exhaust - not really a big deal at this stage
400/451:
Pro's - seems to be everyone here's favorite. Best power potential. already has an auto.
Con's - weight and exhaust change. FT cam.
The car has a 360 which ate a cam lobe so I was intending to build this up into a very stout 408 with some attitude; indy heads and manifold big hyd. roller etc.
By the time I build this motor and rebuild the auto (with 31/2 - 4k stall) and back on the road I figure I'm looking at about $20k aud.

A 383 6 pack has come up locally for $6k. I figured give it the once over and a standard freshen up with a nice lumpy cam and mild heads and then either get the BB auto to suit or do the manual conversion. This "should" come out cheaper than the 408, be just as fun but not as highly strung.
Hopefully the link works:



And then there is a 400/451 stroker. This has been built by a well known racer /builder basically from his left over parts. Already has a rebuilt auto and is ready to go. Not sure about the FT cam specs though or the 'stock' heads but still priced at $10750.00 SEEMS like a bargain. Basically bolt in and go.



So?
WHAT DO I DO? WHAT WOULD YOU DO?


Graeme.

 

[Lefty71]

Me?? I'd say, you already have the 360. You could get very serious with that if you are'nt bothered by spending $11K. Along those lines, anyone could build a nice 451 for $11k as well. Since the car is already set up for small block, I'd probably stay there. The 383, forget it. You are'nt going to get into the 11's as easily and the 6bbl won't likely help you (over a single 4bbl.). You are definately gonna need some of that budget money spent on the chassie to accomplish your goals, which makes it even more important to stick with what you have and not blow half or all your wad on another whole engine. HTH, Lefty71

 

[66Satellite47]

Never been a small block guy, but built a great 360 tow motor for my van. If the goal is drag racing a BB is the easiest, most consistent way to go. I built 2 400/451 combo's. Outstanding power, really high RPM potential. With a moderate cam & moderate cam, will go well.

 

[khryslerkid]

I don't think I would want to buy an advertised engine anywhere stating it was rebuilt. You don't know what you're getting. I've heard too many stories. Rebuilding a stock, untouched engine is risky enough. Rebuilding one that you know is much safer.

Good luck with your outcome. Love me a '64

 

[Jerry Hall]

I agree with build your own. On the other hand I'm a big block man, but still build your own and don't buy someone else's trouble.

 

[ir3333]

408. you are already there with mounts, trans,exhaust etc.
easier steering if manual, better handling, braking and a light roomy engine bay.

 

[LemonWedge]

If you want to go drag racing with a 4-door B-Body, Build a stroker big block. Anything else will leave you wishing you gone this direction. Best bang for the buck in my book would be a 470. No more expensive than a 451, but the extra stroke will help move that 4000 lb chunk. You could easily build a streetable 600 horses for about $7k.
BTW: forget about the 6-pack deal. It’s super cool, but won’t perform like a good 4bbl setup that will cost half the $$.

 

[biomedtechguy]

Small block stroker if handling is of relative importance. A stroker small block will get the behemoth more door moving.
Otherwise I say it's hard to argue against cubic inches in a normally aspirated engine, especially with a larger car, unless you build a small displacement engine and wring its neck, which is definitely not where you want to go here...
If the 383 can save you significant money overall, go for it, but it's going to need a lot of mods to make the kind of power to go as fast as you want to.
Since the OP brought up the 383, does anyone have anything positive to say about building a performance 383 based engine? Back in the late 70s early 80s my buddy had a warmed over 383 in a 70 Roadrunner that was a consistent force to be reckoned with on the street, in the "casual cruiser/muscle car scene" He was "only" running 13s, but it was consistent and he won quite a few pick up races?
It seems like the Chevy 396 really has a lot to offer vs the 383, and being a MOPAR fanboy, I find that disappointing.

 

[ir3333]

i lived through that era and many auto 383's with 3.23 gears were not that fast, but that short stroke and fat piston needed to rev to make good power...adding .410's made a big difference in the heavier Roadrunners and Superbees.

 

[grander]

Thanks everyone for the replies.

I agree and am already preferenced to the small block for the exact reasons all have stated. Weight, handling etc plus the fact it's all there to start.

Graeme.

 

[biomedtechguy]

i lived through that era and many auto 383's with 3.23 gears were not that fast, but that short stroke and fat piston needed to rev to make good power...adding .410's made a big difference in the heavier Roadrunners and Superbees.

That's one of the things my friend did who I referenced. He ran a 3.90 ring and pinion, and had a 4.30 r&p for a while as well.

 

[Stroker68]

Small block stroker if handling is of relative importance. A stroker small block will get the behemoth more door moving.
Otherwise I say it's hard to argue against cubic inches in a normally aspirated engine, especially with a larger car, unless you build a small displacement engine and wring its neck, which is definitely not where you want to go here...
If the 383 can save you significant money overall, go for it, but it's going to need a lot of mods to make the kind of power to go as fast as you want to.
Since the OP brought up the 383, does anyone have anything positive to say about building a performance 383 based engine? Back in the late 70s early 80s my buddy had a warmed over 383 in a 70 Roadrunner that was a consistent force to be reckoned with on the street, in the "casual cruiser/muscle car scene" He was "only" running 13s, but it was consistent and he won quite a few pick up races?
It seems like the Chevy 396 really has a lot to offer vs the 383, and being a MOPAR fanboy, I find that disappointing.

I run a 383 based stroked. It's the original motor for the car so when it came time to do some fixing on it hello 440 crank. New rods, pistons, pushrods of course but overall very affordable. 438 ci. Shifts at 6800. Runs very strong and has pushed my full interior bench seat roadrunner to 11.89. 383 blocks are really strong. Power potential shouldn't be overlooked IMO. Btw 396 chebbys have questionable geometry to say the least. The 396 has nothing on a 383 mopar.

 

[biomedtechguy]

I run a 383 based stroked. It's the original motor for the car so when it came time to do some fixing on it hello 440 crank. New rods, pistons, pushrods of course but overall very affordable. 438 ci. Shifts at 6800. Runs very strong and has pushed my full interior bench seat roadrunner to 11.89. 383 blocks are really strong. Power potential shouldn't be overlooked IMO. Btw 396 chebbys have questionable geometry to say the least. The 396 has nothing on a 383 mopar.

You made my day!
No dog in the hunt, I have a 440 6bbl.
Just like to hear that the 383 is a good engine with great potential.
440 crank drops in??

 

[Stroker68]

You made my day!
No dog in the hunt, I have a 440 6bbl.
Just like to hear that the 383 is a good engine with great potential.
440 crank drops in??

Yeah. You have to go with a 2.2 journal size on the crank which is a Chevy spec rod journal. Aftermarket rods and piston available reasonable. You can now buy kits for the 383. Mine is pieced together using a stock forged 440 crank. Kits make it easy. Gonna need chamfered bearings and might have to notch the cylinder bores for clearance depending on the block your working with. They are screamers when built proper. No disappointments. Pretty much a high rev really light 440.

 

[Tex013]

don't forget header choice for right hook can be a problem , at least with small block you have some room . With a 408 will need everything spot on to run into 11's . I would think a narrower window . My old 440 with 906 heads , 10.5ish comp , 509 purple cam , 4200 stall , 3.9 gears , 275 MT et streets went 11.80s in my Plymouth @ 3800lbs there abouts .

Tex

 

[1 Wild R/T]

If you can source a 440 block I'd use a 4.25 stroke with a 4.35 bore, 7.1 rod makes 505 CI... Fits easily in the stock 440 block

400 block, I'd use the 3.91 stroke & build a 470...

Small block 408 is gonna have to be pretty stout to put 4000 lbs in the 11's... Not saying it can't do it but depending on your tolerance for driving a aggressive street car it might be a little less pleasant as a driver than a big inch big block..

 

[Mike67]

I don't think I would want to buy an advertised engine anywhere stating it was rebuilt. You don't know what you're getting. I've heard too many stories. Rebuilding a stock, untouched engine is risky enough. Rebuilding one that you know is much safer.

Good luck with your outcome. Love me a '64

Ya that ad seems a little off...LY rods on a stroker???

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

You never stated your goals and intentions.What do you want to do with it and how "fast" do you want to be??

 

[66Satellite47]

I don't think I would want to buy an advertised engine anywhere stating it was rebuilt. You don't know what you're getting. I've heard too many stories. Rebuilding a stock, untouched engine is risky enough. Rebuilding one that you know is much safer.

Good luck with your outcome. Love me a '64

I agree, unless you are going in with the idea of checking & re-doing as required.

 

[66Satellite47]

Ya that ad seems a little off...LY rods on a stroker???

Think it refers to a "stroker 400" (440 crank/400 block/LY rods. Been there done that.