Help with engine decision. :(

[khryslerkid]

I bought a nice looking 413 engine once. It looked ok. Internals looked ok. Then I had it cooked at a shop and after clean up you could see spider cracks around each frost plug. So much for doing that block.

 

[Mike67]

Think it refers to a "stroker 400" (440 crank/400 block/LY rods. Been there done that.

I understand that, most kits come with H beam type rods...

 

[451Mopar]

any specific rules like with NHRA you need a rollbar at 11.49 and quicker in the 1/4-mile?
What Tires and size? You will need something better than stock all season tires.
Any fuel octane requirements? Pump gas, Race gas, E-85,...
Any changes to the suspension? I should have started here on my car. Stock suspension and gas shocks are OK when in the 12/s, but in the 11's need to look into suspension changes.
If the car is really heavy like 4,000 pounds, The transmission will need upgrades to last and be safe. Stock rebuild with shift kit should work for awhile, but my aluminum front gear was on its way out with the splines cracking.
The engine choices and options seem to change quickly with new parts coming out every year.
Really, the constraint will likely be budget.
Direction of the engine build may depend on what you want to do with the car in the future?
A built stroker small block can get you where you stated, but is likely to cost about the same to build as a big block.
Either build, it is likely the only original parts that will be used are the bare engine block (with caps, and rear seal retainer), and the timing chain cover.
My preference of base engine block choices, in order, would be 400 B block, 440 RB Block, 383 B block, 340 LA Block, or 360 LA block
All the big blocks can be stroked with a 4.25" stroker crank pretty easy, and displacement will be around 500" give or take a few inches depending on final bore diameter. The small blocks usually run a 4.00" stroker crank for about 400", but there are slightly larger stroker cranks, for more CID.
The cylinder heads are where you make the power, so start with good heads. Look at the newer Trick Flow heads that come CNC ported and have several valve spring choices. If looking to race with a 500" Big Block, the Trick flow 270 Heads would be good.

On the other hand, if doing more of pro-tour setup with EFI, A/C, serpintine belt drive, overdrive trans and such, A Gen 3 Hemi might be a better starting point, as a pullout usually has these features which are exensive to add-on to the older engines.

 

[Tex013]

any specific rules like with NHRA you need a rollbar at 11.49 and quicker in the 1/4-mile?

At Willowbank where he will run its almost anything goes down to 10.49 where rollcage needed , 9.99 for mandatory tech and safety clothing . 4 point harness below 12.00 , lap/sash above . Warwick dragway is about the same .
A big decision to be made that is for sure .

Tex

 

[grander]

Hemi-itis, read my original post again...

You never stated your goals and intentions.What do you want to do with it and how "fast" do you want to be??

 

[bobtile]

Build one yourself.
That stroked Bb seems expensive to me especially with leftover parts.
I went a best of 11.20 @ 121 with a .030 over stock stroke 440 with stealth heads. Stock leaf springs in back.

 

[bobtile]

My car weighed 3690

 

[Tex013]

Build one yourself.
That stroked Bb seems expensive to me especially with leftover parts.
I went a best of 11.20 @ 121 with a .030 over stock stroke 440 with stealth heads. Stock leaf springs in back.

View attachment 854030

Bobtile that's the price you pay in Oz , **** they want $2000 or more for worn out original motors . Grander will have to decide how much compromise he can live with , less racing/et = less compromise .
@3690lbs with a 0.055 over 440 I went 10.71 BUT I had a 5800 vert and 4.1 gears . Daily driver . Only had a .520 nett lift cam . Stock suspension with caltracs and decent shocks

Tex

 

[biomedtechguy]

My old 440 with 906 heads , 10.5ish comp , 509 purple cam , 4200 stall , 3.9 gears , 275 MT et streets went 11.80s in my Plymouth @ 3800lbs

@Tex013
My 71 steel crank heavy rods 440 has 452 heads (stock ports and valve train, Comp springs, locks and retainers). Edelbrock/Chrysler aluminum 6bbl intake w/3x2 Promax modded Holley carbs.
1 7/8" TTi headers. I know the cam is a Purple Stripe, and a few people think it's a .509 292.
Before I changed the weak springs on the heads to the Comp springs, right when the 440+6bbl would really start to come on strong, around 3,800 RPMs, by 4,800 it fell on its face, but I felt like the best was above that.
So I had my springs checked and they were way down on pressure, open and closed, so that is when I got the Comp gear. New hydraulic lifters and pushrods too, along with the springs.
Anyway, I'm telling you all of that because my engine really seems to want to pull to 6,200 although my shift light is set at 5,800 and the limiter set to 6,200.
I've had really bad 60' times, in the low 2 second range because of traction problems. My 1320 MPH is 106.
How did you get into the high 11s with a similar engine.

 

[grander]

Thanks for all the thoughts and opinions.
As Tex said anything mopar in Australia is not cheap BB more so than SB. At a recent Mopar Sunday at Qld Raceway I was surprised at the amount of 10 and 11 sec SB cars with 'most' of them being strokers.
I think I'm to stick with my original plan of a 408 and will also be building the auto up to cope.
The car itself is pretty much gutted with lighter weight seats, bare bones carpet etc. not sure on the weight but "feels" very similar to moving a friends VJ valiant around the shed so maybe 3500? Don't know.
I'm not looking for a nice Sunday cruiser, I have the Caddie for that, this is going to be lumpy, cranky, loud, scare small dogs and old women, hated by the neighbors sort of deal.
I realise a BB will be the best bang for buck but as others have pointed out it's already set up for SB, everything is there and it will be doing more than a straight line with plenty of corners in its future.
You don't see any of these on Australian roads so what ever happens it's going to be special!

 

[Tex013]

Thanks for all the thoughts and opinions.
As Tex said anything mopar in Australia is not cheap BB more so than SB. At a recent Mopar Sunday at Qld Raceway I was surprised at the amount of 10 and 11 sec SB cars with 'most' of them being strokers.
I think I'm to stick with my original plan of a 408 and will also be building the auto up to cope.
The car itself is pretty much gutted with lighter weight seats, bare bones carpet etc. not sure on the weight but "feels" very similar to moving a friends VJ valiant around the shed so maybe 3500? Don't know.
I'm not looking for a nice Sunday cruiser, I have the Caddie for that, this is going to be lumpy, cranky, loud, scare small dogs and old women, hated by the neighbors sort of deal.
I realise a BB will be the best bang for buck but as others have pointed out it's already set up for SB, everything is there and it will be doing more than a straight line with plenty of corners in its future.
You don't see any of these on Australian roads so what ever happens it's going to be special!

Well get your wallet out
I would look at the new Trick Flow sb heads . Solid flat tappet , unless you have a magnum roller block . 11:1 comp . At least 4500 if not 5000 stall and 4.1 gears . With your 275s . Caltracs and decent shocks . And good fuel system .
Good luck
Oh and weigh it , way better than guessing . Then you will have a good guide for HP requirements .

Tex

 

[Tex013]

@Tex013
My 71 steel crank heavy rods 440 has 452 heads (stock ports and valve train, Comp springs, locks and retainers). Edelbrock/Chrysler aluminum 6bbl intake w/3x2 Promax modded Holley carbs.
1 7/8" TTi headers. I know the cam is a Purple Stripe, and a few people think it's a .509 292.
Before I changed the weak springs on the heads to the Comp springs, right when the 440+6bbl would really start to come on strong, around 3,800 RPMs, by 4,800 it fell on its face, but I felt like the best was above that.
So I had my springs checked and they were way down on pressure, open and closed, so that is when I got the Comp gear. New hydraulic lifters and pushrods too, along with the springs.
Anyway, I'm telling you all of that because my engine really seems to want to pull to 6,200 although my shift light is set at 5,800 and the limiter set to 6,200.
I've had really bad 60' times, in the low 2 second range because of traction problems. My 1320 MPH is 106.
How did you get into the high 11s with a similar engine.

Biomed ,
you have to sort your sixty first . I was high 11s before I fitted caltracs IIRC . I shifted @ 6000 , trapped just over 6000 . 28"radial and 3.9 gears .
Oh yeah best et with 509 cam and 4.1 gears was 11.18 .

Tex

 

[grander]

well,it begins. I'll be picking up a set of ported Indy cylinder heads and manifold next week.
I just need to decide and be set on exactly what I want from the car.
Wish me luck!

G.