How Do You Pick An Engine Builder

[glassman]

Just curious to how some of you pick an engine builder. When I was putting together a bullitt proof max wedge motor back in the 80's, I went to see a place called "Fast Racing" , which was an off chute of the old "Rod Shop Race team". Bruce Meihls was his name and he had a guy named "Squeak" do all the machine work and assembly. It was a great setup and I still have the engine today and it is ready for my 62 Ply. wagon. Today "Squeak" runs a shop right across the street called "Smith Brothers Racing" and they do wedges and hemis. We also have another engine builder named Tony Depello that does hemis for us. He held the ss/a record for years and our hemis from him are usually on par with his personal hemi. Stroker hemis and anything BIG over 600 cubes, I think I would go with a shop named Fowlers here in Columbus. They specialize in the big inch motors for all applications and all brands. Still looking for a flathead Chrysler guru.

 

[Bb70charger500]

Well I start with a test (mopar test ) if they know about mopar motors I'm a little more at ease . Then I check out there work . I used to have a guy here that was the mopar guru of fl. He had 10 or so hemis all ready to go and other rare motors (wedge ) And could have a mopar motor appart and inline for the mill before you say ok how long. I miss him now I got no one

 

[mopar 3 B]

I do my own assembly. Finding a good machine shop can be a headache. Shop has got to be clean and all machine work has got to be done in-house. If they do not have the equipment and know how to use it they do not get my work.

 

[Seventy]

I use an engine builder that contracts out the machine work, he has a machine shop he has been using for 20 years with no issues and gives him good prices in which he passes on to me. He worked in a chrysler dealership in the late 60's early 70's, built engines on a race tam through the 70s into the 80's, then raced and built his own engines up to about 5 years ago!!! He is gettting older now but still an awesome guy, can build a heck of an engine and is known as a "mopar guy", he has built me some chevys too, that I have tested on many occasions.

There are a ton of builders out there, machine shops that do start to finish, they will do everything including R&R. But I like that he builds and the machine shop machines, he over sees everything and checks everything out, its worked thus far. Most of the shops I see are doing trannies, engines, and any machine work they can get their hands on, I like walking in and seeing a Hemi build waiting to be picked up, maybe a 1100 hp blown big block on a stand, etc...

Now as far as sending stuff out, my builder uses another separate shop to turn cranks, another guy he has known for a long time and all the guy does is cranks, has the machinery in his home garage he does it on the side from his job (he is a postal worker I believe, really nice guy, I have dropped and picked up cranks from him), he also does the balancing, he has a couple hundred thousand in equipment and he always has a stack of cranks waiting to be done..

Head work is another story, my builder does the valve jobs himself, and only has the machine shop clean and mag them, like most racers he is **** about the heads, it doesn't matter if they are going on a 220 hp 305 chevy for one of my service vans, he is cleaning them up, matching them with the intake and gaskets, and doing a comp valve job on them, lol...

I know a friend of mine gets engine built by some fancy shop that charges him 3-4 times what I pay, he doesn't mind, he said they have all brand new machinery, and all kinds of fancy computers, which is cool, I have seen pictures on his phone it looks like a state of the art shop, BUT, they do the heads with a fancy digital machine (I think its a serdi).
Well I bought a set of heads off of him (these were AFR aluminum BB chevy heads, he had in a motor for a few years then redid the top end but never put the motor back together), so I take this fresh set of heads to my guy to put on a short block he built me. He said I am going to check the "run out" I told him, they were done and wrapped in plastic, they should be perfect.", Was I wrong, the he popped a spring off and pulled the first valve, the run out was .008 almost across the board, needless to say my guy did a complete valve job and went over them heads. It was one of the only times I used "facetime", I called my buddy on it and showed him the gauge spinning around the seat, he was so pissed, he called the shop and they said "we did them heads a year ago for you", they didn't care he never touched them. He still uses them though.


So, if you are looking for a builder the best thing to do is know a bit yourself, and have a conversation with him.
Things like...

-making sure they will check/line hone your mains (but make sure they are only going to line hone if it is needed),

-make sure they are going to use a torque plate when boring/honing,

-make sure they will match up your heads and intake, my guys tarts by cleaning up the heads, then the intake gets matched to them, you wouldn't believe how much a cast 440-6 intake is off, the rectangle holes in some of the ports are almost round, lol...

-make sure they have reliable torque wrenches, you can do this with out sounding like a dick, just ask something like "hey, I have an old torque wrench, do you have the number of a guy that can calibrate it?" if he says "eh' you don't need to calibrate them", RUN!!! I watched my guy double check his torques on wrenches he gets calibrated very often.

-Ask him how he does his valve jobs and feel out how much time he puts into them, this is an important part of your build, it is where all your power is made, if he just tosses them on a machine and calls them good, then thats fine but make sure that is all you are paying for...

-make sure he will spend the time to degree in the cam correctly

-another trick to see if the builder is a hack is to play dumb and ask "can I bring you all the parts after the motor is all machined and ready to go?", if he says yes, then RUN, a good machinist won't hone the motor with out having the pistons being installed there for measuring.

This can all be done in a 10 minute conversation, not a big deal, no one gets offended or feels interrogated, and you learn a lot about the shop. In the end the motor will tell you the story, if the valve job isn't done correctly the motor will be prone to carbon build up, if the bottom end is not correct then your oil analysis will come back with all kind of metals present, if your seals are not done correctly then you will have puddles in your driveway, if your valve trane isn't dialed in correctly the motor will be a night mare to tune and get running good.

I think most machine shops that have been around a while will do a decent job, I would always say the motor is for street/track use and then after its built tell them you decided not to race it (you can run into warranty issues if they think you raced it BUT some machine shops will do a better job for a "race" engine...

 

[383man]

I dont as I build my own engines as well as building everything on my cars. But I went to school for alot of training and have been an auto tech all my life. I even took auto shop and machine shop in high school before I even got into the bussiness. This way I can only blame myself if something goes wrong. But know matter how much you feel you know you are never to smart to take good advise or ask advise from someone who you value their opinion. You can never learn to much. Ron

 

[GetX'd]

References, references, references..... This stuff costs $$ and the motors are often almost priceless to you anyway. When I built my GTX 494 I got trapped with a guy that was super good and well respected - but held my motor hostage for 2 years before he completed it. Nothing to do with $$ - everything to do with work ethic and priorities. Mine were different than his. We dyno tuned the motor at a different shop and it turned out better than expected - but no sure the 2 years was worth the ulcer it produced. Original motor and very important to me.

Get references".........

 

[451Mopar]

I ask around to see who others are using. That is for machine work. I spec and build my engines, but I also try to get as much information from others.
I have used at least six different machine shops, a few have closed after the owners passed away. In fact most of the shops I been using are ran by older men, and they don't look like they have any younger employees to take over when they can no longer run the businesses?
Two of the shops were only used once because I had issues with the quality of their work.
One shop is a big name race shop, but is backlogged so turnaround times can be months. They do have alot of specialized equipment, like the fixture for correcting the lifter bores on the Mopar Mega blocks.
Of the last four engines I built, I have had the short blocks machined at one shop, and the heads done at another "cylinder head specialist" shop.
A friend wants me to check out a shop he had just used, and it is closer to my home than the place I have been using, but the place I have been using I know does good work and usually has it done in a week or two.

 

[747mopar]

If you do it yourself you have nobody to blame but yourself, that's my logic and that's why I build my own. Granted I'm not a racer and my motors tend to be around $6,000 and don't get spun above 6,500 rpm but have never lost a motor. I farm out most of the machine work but all clearances are triple checked leaving nobody to blame but me.

 

[Dennis H]

Mopar ONLY Shop. Too many exclusive nuances.

 

[glassman]

Our first race motor was built in 1959 and the bores were bored in our garage by a machine shop that NAPA had in the rear of their shop. I remember the old man and his yellow 50 GMC NAPA pickup coming out to our garage. It seemed like it took all day. That motor went on to win 60 class trophies and I am the proud owner of the car and the trophies today. Last time down the track for that car was 1968.

 

[rumblefish360]

It started with advice from co-workers who ares car nuts and actual mechanics (Or were or still moonlight doing so)
After locating a often recommended shop, I did some research on his history, which was quite lengthy. I went to his shop and asked the first question, "Do you have a honing plate for a SBM?" His reply, "Of course!" Then some MoPar talk. If you can't follow along with me, your toast. If you can't make a suitable suggestion over what I am talking about, and I always leave room to see if you know, your toast. If you try and talk me int spending money on more than I need, your toast. The best is honesty. Seldom seen sometimes.

I know my small blocks very well, but not everything. Something always seems to pop up that is odd or weird. You tend to gain a bit of knowledge after 28 years of messing around with one brand. LMAO!