I need your help Determining Investment cost verses car selling value

[Tom Petty Lives]

I am a long time Mopar fan, first time owner. I purchased what I thought would be a good daily driver that was in good but not perfect and that was ok. It still turns heads. I have a 1969 Hurst Olds H/O455 convertible that spent 4 years in a full rotisserie restoration. Most say it’s to nice to drive but cars are meant to be Driven. My new to me, 1970 Dodge Coronet R/T Convertible 440. Vin certifies it it a true R/T 440 but it’s missing it’s fender tag. The 440 engine is date code correct but not matching numbers. We pulled carpets, kick pads, console and door cards and all evidence indicates that it’s a true Top Banana Yellow car. We found evidence that it started out as a automatic but at some point the car was changed to a 4-speed. The work done was very good quality and the manual transmission jump was cut out and a manual jump welded in just like the factory did it. So many of the floor plan, rocker and trunk area That so commonly rust out are in great original shape. It had a 8” oval dent repaired in passenger front fender and is showing its age, all chrome is in very good shape for 50 yrs old. Driver door and driver rear fender has 6-8” of bubbling under the paint at bottom. Car was repainted sometime in the 80’s. Typical engine out paint job but over spray on other bay parts. Over spray on undercoating. A few chips that had touch up applied. Convertible top in good shape but showing some shrinkage. Interior appeArs to be original with only a few cracks in driver seat. Console showing its age with black paint chipping and a crack in rear near chrome bezel. Suspension showing its age needing new brushing and rear leaf springs redone. 14” ralley wheels, am Radio/8-track. Original 906 heads Dated 7/1969 and when we pulled the cast iron heads off, the factory mopar Stamped headgasket was still there. It’s a factory header exhaust, Dana60 4:10 car. Block date code 9/1969

So here is my question that I’m sure so many others find themselves asking?

What would be a realistic selling price for the car if fully restored verses a good car with obvious issues addressed. When I look at auctions for non matching number cars the cap appears to be somewhere from $68k to $79k with matching numbers top asking price $89k to $109k.

I would like to hear from fellow members their opinions. I need to determine what I really want to do with the car. It’s got it pluses and negatives. But in the end, what will it bring after a full rotisserie restoration verses all rust repaired, good paint job and engine and drive train as well as suspension Redone and freshened up?

I know I’m asking for a guess and prices are subjective but I need to figure what a car like this would be valued at either 100% fullly restores with maybe complete black leather interior replacing vinyl or 70% complete with legendary replacement of front seats and original no cut/tear rear seats perfect.

please no negative commits or obvious answers. Anyone with experience restoring and selling a similar car would be helpful.

I am not looking to flip, I’m looking to enjoy the car. But have health issues and want to make sure that my family can recoup the money I have invested after it’s done. So far I have $32k in the car. Figuring $10-12k for repair/restore engine, drivetrain and suspension.

Do you think that if I have $65k all in on a good honest car, if I ever had to sell it would I be able to get my investment back out of it?

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[davek]

I would say no but that is my opinion,as you can see I have a 70 Bee and no fender tag or build sheet so I can only ask so much. My car has the ramcharger N96 and spoiler,4spd which I believe belongs to the car but cant prove it. I watched a 70 matching number Bee go this year for only $28,000 at Mecum auction. Its was auto on column 383 car and not a great color. This is only my opinion. I am doing the same as you are for my son,he will get the car.

 

[dadsbee]

Spray everything you can get at with Krown or Fluidfilm and enjoy the car!

 

[Tom Petty Lives]

I would say no but that is my opinion,as you can see I have a 70 Bee and no fender tag or build sheet so I can only ask so much. My car has the ramcharger N96 and spoiler,4spd which I believe belongs to the car but cant prove it. I watched a 70 matching number Bee go this year for only $28,000 at Mecum auction. Its was auto on column 383 car and not a great color. This is only my opinion. I am doing the same as you are for my son,he will get the car.

Thanks, that was lower than I expected. I saw them going for more and several selling and more still available at about $68k.

Hagerty valuation tool states a car like mine in #3 quality is valued at $36,500 but I know prices vary on the buy/desire/money!

 

[BeatersRus]

most of the 70 convertibles are going fro around 70k,in dealers lots.
this is a tough call.
cons =
not numbers matching and no fender tag.
needs bodywork and paint thruout.
needs suspension redone completely.
needs driveline rebuilt/restored.
was an automatic/now a manual.

pro-s =
its a 70 coronet R/T convertible -> RARE.
you have what looks to be a complete car.
it already has the 440,you dont need to go find one.
no matter how far you decide to take it restowise,
someone Else will be willing to buy/finish it because of what it is.
if it Wasnt a true R/T And a convertible,i would say you overpaid on the initial buy-in.

im seeing really nice cars for right around 70k,so im guesstimatin <
you have 30k - 35 k of car so far,depending on how much needs rebuilt/restored.
keep in mind whatever your estimate is,you should Up that by a third.

 

[Dibbons]

I figure with my own restorations I would get offers of about 50% of what I have invested (not counting the 1000's of hours of my personal time invested). That is a safe, conservative estimate so I don't plan on using this hobby as an investment. On the bright side, I don't expect that 50% to depreciate lower in the future. So I see $30 grand invested and $15 grand of true value. That is just my personal evaluation. Maybe auction prices could drive that higher, or maybe auction sales commissions would eat up all of that higher sales anyway. I'm no expert and a very poor salesperson.

 

[Tom Petty Lives]

most of the 70 convertibles are going fro around 70k,in dealers lots.
this is a tough call.
cons =
not numbers matching and no fender tag.
needs bodywork and paint thruout.
needs suspension redone completely.
needs driveline rebuilt/restored.
was an automatic/now a manual.

pro-s =
its a 70 coronet R/T convertible -> RARE.
you have what looks to be a complete car.
it already has the 440,you dont need to go find one.
no matter how far you decide to take it restowise,
someone Else will be willing to buy/finish it because of what it is.
if it Wasnt a true R/T And a convertible,i would say you overpaid on the initial buy-in.

im seeing really nice cars for right around 70k,so im guesstimatin <
you have 30k - 35 k of car so far,depending on how much needs rebuilt/restored.
keep in mind whatever your estimate is,you should Up that by a third.

 

[66 Sat]

If you're already $32k in the car, I wouldn't worry about the engine, drivetrain and suspension for now but would fix the bodywork before it gets worse. I doubt $10-12k would do the engine, drivetrain and suspension anyway, but that would depend on the current condition, what you intend doing and what you can do yourself.
As I'm sure you know from your Olds restoration these things can spiral out of control - the bodywork/respray alone would chew up $10-$15k.
Who knows where the market will be in 5 years with all the crap going on at the moment - why not enjoy the car now and put the $33k you are willing to spend ($65k all in) in the bank for your family to use to either restore the car or use for something else if anything happens to you?

 

[Tom Petty Lives]

Thanks. I appreciate your thoughts. My thought was that I paid $32k so far. I could afford to invest $30-$33k to fix the existing issues to make it a strong running, solid performance 475hp 550tq 18 spline, 4:10 true 1970 Dodge Coronet R/T 440 convertible and a true Top Banana Yellow Black on Black black bubble bee stripe car. With a total investment of $65k and enjoy the car and hope I can break even if I ever need to sell or my wife can sell if I pass away.

 

[vintage chromoly]

With that amount of bubbling and rust coming through, you will be into rust repair and body work that will cost a fortune.
The best course of action, if you are worried about recouping the money you already have in it, is to leave it pretty much alone and enjoy it as is

 

[Tom Petty Lives]

If you're already $32k in the car, I wouldn't worry about the engine, drivetrain and suspension for now but would fix the bodywork before it gets worse. I doubt $10-12k would do the engine, drivetrain and suspension anyway, but that would depend on the current condition, what you intend doing and what you can do yourself.
As I'm sure you know from your Olds restoration these things can spiral out of control - the bodywork/respray alone would chew up $10-$15k.
Who knows where the market will be in 5 years with all the crap going on at the moment - why not enjoy the car now and put the $33k you are willing to spend ($65k all in) in the bank for your family to use to either restore the car or use for something else if anything happens to you?

All valid points. You sound like my wife. As for the engine, suspension drive Tran it’s being done now. And it appears the true cost will be about $13k.

 

[BeatersRus]

even if you decide to not get the body and paintwork done,
you can still enjoy the car and have a Valuable car to boot.
also,very Glad to hear you are redoing the suspension as well.
at least youll be safe while you are smoldering those tires down the road

 

[69Coronetrt]

Thanks. I appreciate your thoughts. My thought was that I paid $32k so far. I could afford to invest $30-$33k to fix the existing issues to make it a strong running, solid performance 475hp 550tq 18 spline, 4:10 true 1970 Dodge Coronet R/T 440 convertible and a true Top Banana Yellow Black on Black black bubble bee stripe car. With a total investment of $65k and enjoy the car and hope I can break even if I ever need to sell or my wife can sell if I pass away.

For some of the various reasons stated above. I don't think you will break even.

 

[Tom Petty Lives]

even if you decide to not get the body and paintwork done,
you can still enjoy the car and have a Valuable car to boot.
also,very Glad to hear you are redoing the suspension as well.
at least youll be safe while you are smoldering those tires down the road

Amen, you preach it!
Redoing the motor was a must. When we took the heads off, The motor was a real time capsule with its 906 cast iron heads, factory headgaskets stamped mopar 3376BS, valves, springs and 1535 factory mopar rods. As such, It was clear the engine had never been apart. It had oils leaks and was burning some oil.
So redoing and freshening up the motor was a must to feel safe and confident to run the car the way you want it and enjoy it. This car gets for more looks than my 1969 Hurst Olds 455 even in its current condition.

 

[Ron H]

Any muscle car that's a rare edition in decent shape (aside from pristine) should command more bucks, if not #'s mate, guts a bit of the price. Pristine resto keeping to original look adds value, though some nicely done resto-mods can get surprising buys. Good to find out how rare the car is, such as one of 50 or 20 made. Having chatted with enough guys with cherry rides, the stability of market price can be a crapshoot. Sometimes at auction it involves a couple people who REALLY want the car - right time right place. Some say they aren't in it for da money; they want to build their car for them and no expectations with selling it for what they put into it. I'm ahh, an example. I've put around $40k in my '63 Plymouth vert over some years and even if a right time selling it, might garner a bit over half that price. I've had the chat with my next of kinfolk, don't dump the car for less than this should I croak off as they'll want to get rid of it. Be patient before unloading it if that day don't come...I doubt I'll be peeved about it either way. At least they have an idea what it should be worth having absolutely no clue pre-chat.

 

[cosgig]

It’s nice enough to drive as is, and if it were mine that’s just what I would do. It’s hard to speculate what the market will do in the upcoming years, but at $32k, and another $32k into it, my opinion would be that $65k is the absolute top of what it would be worth with a non matching numbers engine. Do what makes you happy, but it would be hard for me to put another $35k into it just to try to break even.

 

[66 Sat]

One other thing to consider, but if you are in ill health, how long will the car be off the road while the restoration takes place? Bodywork especially can take ages depending on the shop you use, and while it's all happening the clock is ticking.

I don't mean to be morbid and I hope you have many good years to come, but sometimes you have to look at things coldly to get to the right answer.

 

[Tom Petty Lives]

One other thing to consider, but if you are in ill health, how long will the car be off the road while the restoration takes place? Bodywork especially can take ages depending on the shop you use, and while it's all happening the clock is ticking.

I don't mean to be morbid and I hope you have many good years to come, but sometimes you have to look at things coldly to get to the right answer.

I love the honesty. My health is a gradual thing. An IED explosion caused a Traumatic Brain Injury that is causing my memory to decrease and the chronic pain from fractures to my neck, back, both hips, legs and arms has caused scar tissue to stiffen and pain increase. My cars are a source of freedom from my cold dark bedroom, the car shows with families, fans and interaction with other tire smoking car guys gives me a reason to get out of the house. The restorer I chose is working with me to do the work in stages during winter weather months that would only see the car in my garage anyways. So I’m having the motor freshened up, suspension and verifying safety for the road and drivability this winter with April 1 as drop dead date to have the car back to use in Michigan Spring.

 

[4406bbl]

I would not do a rotisserie restoration on a car with no fender tag or build sheet. I saw a roger gibson restored 440-6 black bee bring only 60k, so I would be careful, rare or few made does not help, people pay up for 1970 Roadrunners and Chargers over the this bodystyle. My opinion, you will lose money, but if you want to do it, that is not uncommon. Keep it running, and out of the body shop.

 

[Ironbuilt]

I say drive it like you stole it. You will never recoup what it will cost to restore the R/T. If that is your concern, gradually fix only what's needed and enjoy the heck out of it. As mentioned above, if you start digging into that body, you are bound to open up a can of worms that will quickly eat up your allotted budget.
PS That Olds is a beauty!!!