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I think something's wrong with the Boeing 737 Max 8

patrick66 said:
No, other than being jet powered single-aisle aircraft, built by Boeing, and have the number "7" in their names, that's all they have in common.

707 - 4-engines under the wings, up to 215 pax, first flown in 1954. The only 707s flying are purpose-built AWACS and USN E-6 aircraft, plus JSTARS and a handful of specialty aircraft. Over 1,000 airliners and 800 military derivatives built.

727 - 3-engines (2 mounted aft, one on the tail), up to 120 pax, first flown in 1962. Fewer than 45 remain flying worldwide of 1,800+ built.

737 - 2-engines under the wings, anywhere from 60 to 190 pax, first flown in 1967 (Max series in 2013). Civilian and military derivatives total over 10,000 flying, with over 1,400 airborne at any given time

There is no "derivation" at all between the three. All are very different aircraft.
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It used to be a joke around the airports back in the 70's that Boeing was operating a giant fuselage machine (like a sausage machine) and they simply cut off the required length for either 707, 727 or 737. The 727 did share much fuselage and cockpit with the 707, and while initial plans were smaller, to save costs the 737 wound up with a lot of the same fuselage structure. Same inner and outer cross section diameters and seating. Incidentally, the 757 was also derived from the 727. Original designs for it even included the T tail, later dropped. But the fuselage cross sections still show the heritage.
 
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Just flew Southwest last week. 737. Beautiful aircraft. How to tell it’s a Max B?
 
Dennis H said:
Just flew Southwest last week. 737. Beautiful aircraft. How to tell it’s a Max B?
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Usually an info page stored on the back of the seat in front of you. Shows the emergency exits, aircraft info etc. Also the flight attendants should know. Dont think I have been on a Max 8, but it was mentioned as coming soon, to Southwest.
 
A lot of Hellcats are crashing. There must be something wrong with them.
 
So is there any chance the crashes are terror related?
 
BeeKool said:
So is there any chance the crashes are terror related?
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I guess there's always that chance, but not likely. Why would they choose a new airplane that only crashes on take off? Besides that, security is pretty tight. Not sure how it is over there, though. Hmmmm.....
 
Photon440 said:
It used to be a joke around the airports back in the 70's that Boeing was operating a giant fuselage machine (like a sausage machine) and they simply cut off the required length for either 707, 727 or 737. The 727 did share much fuselage and cockpit with the 707, and while initial plans were smaller, to save costs the 737 wound up with a lot of the same fuselage structure. Same inner and outer cross section diameters and seating. Incidentally, the 757 was also derived from the 727. Original designs for it even included the T tail, later dropped. But the fuselage cross sections still show the heritage.
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Where is the outrage over this?
 
patrick66 said:
SlapStick is now blocked. Done with his bullshit. He did nothing to prove his supposed point. "Look it up" is not the way you prove something. He must've sucked *** in debate.
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Oh no! You didn't like what I said so you blocked me! It is the end of my world!
You guys were the know it alls. You all said I was wrong. If you were so correct why didn't you prove me wrong?
That's right...you couldn't. You could have done as I suggested...look it up. Either you didn't and remained uninformed or you did and saw you were wrong and couldn't admit it.
Sometimes doing the research and finding out on your own is more palatable than having the info force fed. It allows you to save face.
But if you are so adamant you are correct you can post links to prove the other guy wrong.
Apology accepted.
 
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Dennis H said:
Boeing stock is down. Buy.
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Dropped $50 at the bell on Monday, and recovered $30 at the closing bell. Closed at $400. Hovering at $385 at 9:00 CDT this morning. It'll drop and recover. This is by no means a "death knell". If you're a panicky investor, by all means, knock yourself out!
 
Photon440 said:
It used to be a joke around the airports back in the 70's that Boeing was operating a giant fuselage machine (like a sausage machine) and they simply cut off the required length for either 707, 727 or 737. The 727 did share much fuselage and cockpit with the 707, and while initial plans were smaller, to save costs the 737 wound up with a lot of the same fuselage structure. Same inner and outer cross section diameters and seating. Incidentally, the 757 was also derived from the 727. Original designs for it even included the T tail, later dropped. But the fuselage cross sections still show the heritage.
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Been around these damn things for nearly 40 years and have never heard that before. Ever.
 
patrick66 said:
Saw two articles today where there were reports of a vibration and shuddering on the plane, plus ground eyewitnesses who saw "smoke and debris coming from the plane" on its way down. Sounds more like a bomb, explosion causing flight control problems, or similar situation. Planes have crashed because of lithium batteries in the cargo hold catching fire and exploding. Everyone is quick to blame Boeing or the airline, when the cause may well be something neither could foretell.
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There are so many variables on this, it's hard for one to make a honest statement about this. The Black Boxes won't lie about what happened.

Garys1969RR said:
Usually an info page stored on the back of the seat in front of you. Shows the emergency exits, aircraft info etc. Also the flight attendants should know. Dont think I have been on a Max 8, but it was mentioned as coming soon, to Southwest.
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I got a buddy that drives one for SW, he likes flyin it!

Slap Stick said:
You guys were the know it alls. You all said I was wrong. If you were so correct why didn't you prove me wrong?
That's right...you couldn't. You could have done as I suggested...look it up. Either you didn't and remained uninformed or you did and saw you were wrong and couldn't admit it.
But if you are so adamant you are correct you can post links to prove the other guy wrong.
Apology accepted.
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You know what dipshit? I did post a link with some facts, you could've very easily posted some facts and links yourself to prove your point. BUT YOU DIDN"T, WHY? Are you really that much of a lazy POS that you can't back up your **** with facts & links? Why should we have to fact check you? WTF's the matter with you? Your so full of ****, you make the toilets jealous!
 
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I'm following this and I can buy the argument that the countries that had grounded it didn't have good reason because it is small number statistics, but a few European countries just grounded them too. My impression (and I'm not informed on aircraft) is that the normal 737 is fine, but the max has something different. I wonder if it isn't related to how it flied but how it is controlled. I am sure it will get resolved by Boeing, but it sounds like some real concerns exist that are beyond the we are better than they are stage.
 
When you take the Pilot out of the equation due to extensive automation, then you are actually flying Blind as the POC...Pilot in Command...is not doing the actual flying of the aircraft. I believe Pres. Trump made a statement here either today or yesterday that airplanes are now way too automated and very complicated because of this automation. So here are a few points that need to be addressed...

1. A question first??? What are the most critical phases of flight? If you were to answer Takeoffs and Landings, then you would be correct. Taxiing and level flight or after say 5000 ft AGL then it is a much safer envelope to handle any and all IFE's or In-Flight Emergencies with a far greater effect than just after takeoff or right before landing. In this case I see that the Zone of Recovery due to the MCAS and Attitude of Flight...AOF...indication being over ridden and controlled by the Auto Pilot and and the In-flight Computer.
2. When you have these devises handling the flight and Aircraft performance, you effectively take the PIC and Co-Pilot/1st Officer out of the equation. In modern flight, these Crew Members are so over task saturated with the monitoring of the Avionics and Flight Characteristics that they miss so many important procedures needed to maintain a safe and comfortable flight. And often times these procedures are not maintained for the sake of all the warning horns, whistles and bells now going off along with the GPWIS Annunciation system telling you what to do to correct the potential mishap. Think the FL Everglades crash back in the 70's when the Eastern Airlines L-1011 crashed into the swamp. It was because of a faulty warning light that took up the valuable time of both PIC and 1st Officer. They missed the altitude indicator and by the time realized that it was too late, crashed killing a majority of the passengers and crew. This is because of "Automation."
3. With all that I am laying out here, the main point is this. When the flight experiences problems and emergencies, the very first thing the PIC and 1st Officer are to do is??? FLY THE DAMN AIRPLANE!!! Turn off all the avionics related to computerization and fly it Stick and Rudder. This was always beaten into our collective heads for all aircrew in the USAF both Enlisted and Officer. Fly The Damn Airplane. To me once AI and computerization take over then you loose it all to those entities and have surrendered good judgement and safety of Flight.

As for Slap Stick and his summations and theories? Just another Arm Chair wannabe that cannot provide a valid reply other than "Look it Up." He probably relies upon Snoopes and all the other Google type search tools which for the most part lack any substance and fact. The 7 series of Boeing Aircraft may indeed have the same and very similar front end from the forward Bulkhead to the Nose, but in actuality they are very differently designed in size, width, and such in order to compute the Weight and Balance of the aircraft for flight performance. And just for the record here, the KC-135 Tanker is a smaller diameter fuselage than the 707 as the AF and Boeing decided to shrink it to its present state. Maybe look the same but a hell of a lot different. And also...The similar nose look of all Boeing aircraft today are actually a result of post merger of McDonnell Douglass and Boeing. Just look at the ol' C-47/DC-3. I rest my case. May all those who perished RIP:praying::praying::praying:...cr8crshr/Bill:usflag::usflag::usflag:
 
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