Installing Hydroboost and bigger brakes in a 1970 Charger

[Kern Dog]

I had the lines crimped today but......

When I got to the shop, I showed the man where the hoses needed to be cut. In the process, the hoses got crimped on the wrong ends....

The top hose should be the shorter one. The bottom one should be the longer one.
This is the line from the HB to the steering box. It is 2 inches too long. When it is finished, it will tuck in really nice.

The steel end will swing counter-clockwise and bring everything closer to the master cylinder.

Shortening that hose is easy. I'll just have them crimp on another fitting after cutting 2 inches off of the end.
The other one is 2 1/4" short. It would have worked if it was 2" longer but it will have a slight amount more slack with 2 1/4".
I usually luck out on matters like this but sometimes things do go wrong.

 

[Kern Dog]

Finally.....

The short hose is in and tucks in nicely.

The long hose fits too.

It is a little bit "busy" with all the hoses there. I still need to run the return line from the HB to the pump.

I just ordered some banjo fittings through Summit Racing. They will allow the two pressure lines to lay down closer to the HB unit. They should function the same but look neater.

The Power Steering pump belt is on and at the end of the adjustment range. The belt is sort of close to the 2 A/C-Alternator belts as if the pulley alignment is off a bit. It was 4 1/2 months ago that I took this apart so I am a little bit fuzzy on how it was before. I might be looking for a smaller diameter pulley for the P/S pump. My pump has the pulley held on with a nut like so:

 

[themechanic]

That's beginning to look like a still or a NASA engineering project.

 

[themechanic]

Greg, did you install the recommended replacement MC cap seals or did you have the leaky caps everyone else has?

 

[Kern Dog]

Greg, did you install the recommended replacement MC cap seals or did you have the leaky caps everyone else has?

I heard about those. I'll have to get them. The MC is dry. I have yet to even bench bleed it.
I forgot to mention....
Total for these custom hydraulic lines is $68 including the replacement "fix" today. I really expected this to cost more.

 

[Cheapsunglasses]

Looks great

 

[Kern Dog]

Sometimes I log onto RockAuto.com when I have a part and I don't know the year or model that it came from.
For example, the power steering pump. I checked and found that my 1970 model did use the type with the nut.
Saginaw pumps have been around for years and have had many small changes.
The one from my car is an early 70s vintage with the nut to retain the pulley. Later ones had a press on style while still using a V belt. Even later ones used a press on serpentine belt design.

I have something like 8-10 Saginaw pumps out in the shed. Most of them have the press on design.
I have been thinking that with the pump now doing double duty, maybe I need a smaller pulley to increase the pump speed to keep up with the demand. Going from a 6" to a 5" is an increase of about 16.5%.
I can either use a the pump I have that has the 5" pulley on it OR
use a 5" pulley that fits my current pump.
I placed a WTB ad:

WTB - Saginaw power steering pump pulley 5" diameter

Either way would be fine with me. I don't know how common the 5" pulley is. It could be pretty rare because I don't recall seeing one before.

 

[RemCharger]

^^^^ Agreed!

 

[1 Wild R/T]

I wonder if there's more than one displacement of pump.... Same pulley, different fluid volume..

Another option, use one of the V belt press fit pulleys, if you wanted to, honing the bore and broaching a keyway would make it work with the early pump..

 

[wagonman]

Great writeup and food for thought. Having just added PS with the Saginaw pump makes me want PB also. I have the smaller pin type calipers and rotors from a 72 or 73 B wagon and while they stop OK they are not to my liking. On changing the pedal ratio where did you drill for the MC rod? Further up makes sense to me but how much further up? I have also tried a few MC combos with no noticeable difference. This also has the 11 inch rear drums. Will follow to see your outcome and Thanks for posting.

 

[Kern Dog]

Great writeup and food for thought. On changing the pedal ratio where did you drill for the MC rod? Further up makes sense to me but how much further up?

Thanks for the kind words.
The pedal pushrod hole was simply drilled right above the stock hole. I welded a washer over the new hole just to reinforce it since 2 holes close together seemed like it would weaken the lever.

 

[Kern Dog]

The master cylinder for this application is the following:

RAYBESTOS MC39178 Specifications
Number of Ports	2
Primary Port Thread A	1/2"-20
Secondary Port Thread A	9/16"-20

It is OEM for a 1985 Dodge D-150.

 

[themechanic]

The master cylinder for this application is the following:

RAYBESTOS MC39178 Specifications
Number of Ports	2
Primary Port Thread A	1/2"-20
Secondary Port Thread A	9/16"-20

It is OEM for a 1985 Dodge D-150.

I'm assuming it's 1 1/8" bore since it's for power brakes.

 

[Kern Dog]

You are correct.
1 1/8” bore.

I removed the 5” pulley from the pump it was on.

The shaft size:

The pulley is actually 5 1/8”.

I decided to buy a rebuilt pump from the local NAPA store.

I'll just have to swap reservoirs again.

This pulley will get sandblasted and painted, then installed this weekend.

Since this will require a new, shorter belt that is not a factory length, I'll probably get two belts to have a spare.

 

[Kern Dog]

When I work on a project like this one, I often make mistakes like anyone else. I am man enough to admit them and even post about them.
This is one of those times.
I spent 5 hours today to basically end up where I started.
The goal was to swap the new pump into the dual nipple reservoir, press on the 5" pulley and install it all.

The new pump has the same size shaft as the pulley but the threads in the pump (at the back) are metric and had these weird "shoulders" to them...

I mounted the pump but the weird shoulders seemed to push the pump forward. Of the 12 Saginaw pumps I had in the shed, NONE had metric threaded bolts. Every one of them was SAE and had no shoulder to them.
Since these shoulders put the brackets out of alignment, I took a grinder and shaved off the weird raised area. and trial fitted the pump again.

This allowed the rear bracket to sit in tight like before.
The front bracket has a 1/2" square hole to use a 1/2" drive ratchet to twist the pump to tighten the drive belt. The hole was deformed from years of use...

It allowed the breaker bar to flop around too much so I fixed it.

I dressed the welds with a file until the 1/2" extension fit....

 

[Kern Dog]

With the pump in place, the P/S pulley lined up perfectly with the outer groove of the crank. The problem was, the outer groove is for the fan belt. I pulled the pump and drove the pulley on a little more. The other pumps I had out back were not consistent with how far the pulleys were pressed on. I tweaked the brackets a little and with the pulley in about another 3/16", I hoped it would line up.
It did not line up.
I was pissed and having trouble figuring out what I did wrong....THEN I measured things. The old setup:

That is the old pump in the NAPA reservoir. This measured 2 1/4" from the face of the reservoir to the center of the groove. The new setup was 2 3/4".
I was sticking out a full half inch too far. It turns out that this 5" pulley had more offset than the other pulleys. I was so caught up in the diameter, I never thought of the offset. I had to go out and pull a pulley from another pump to use here. It lines up at the same position as the old setup.

The setup now is a 5 7/8" size but this one is solid, not a 3 spoke style. It is straight as can be, unlike the 3 spoke that had a bend to it that I never got out completely.

This doesn't happen often but it does happen. I cussed and complained but I got it back together. I didn't need the new pump but in the end, I got a slightly smaller pulley that is more sturdy and straight.

Here is a parting shot for the night.....

Another angle with a Halloween theme....

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

Good story and you figured it out and it didn't take all weekend.
And another AWESOME photo. Thanks for that parting shot.

 

[ckessel]

Dontcha just love "fixing" an issue just to have it backwards? Been there too. This kind of stuff adds to our knowledge base and wisdom.

 

[Kern Dog]

The banjo fittings arrived today.

The two pressure fittings screwed in just fine.

The small one though…

The threaded shank is too long. It bottomed out in the hole before the fitting was tight. I might shorten the bolt but I need a die or a nut to make sure the threads are ok before I try to thread it into the HB unit. The fitting does sit close to the housing, maybe too close.
For now, I just used the straight fitting. I do think it will look better with the banjo setup.

 

[Cheapsunglasses]